I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Working on anything outside of this forum? Let us know!
Locked
User avatar
Kyrant
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 11:12 am
Anime Fan Since: 2003-ish
Location: Bellingham, WA
Contact:

I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by Kyrant »

As I've mentioned in my introduction thread, I am an actor and writer. The current project that I"m working on (still in the early research stages) is the script for a play about fandom, specifically the fandom surrounding anime and manga. The anime fan community is one that is often misunderstood, and consistently poorly represented. Despite how much fandom has become a part of the world we live in, it's disproportionately ignored in the stories we tell. So, I had the idea to explore this world, via the uniquely intimate format of theatre. Though its still just a handful of concepts now, the eventual plan is to blend stories from the fandom in with a fictional narrative, to create an original piece. I'm choosing the stage as the medium for this, because it's both small enough for me to be able to write honestly and openly, while still "mainstream" enough that I'm reaching an audience wider than other fans.

That said, in writing this, I don't want to just write about my own, limited experiences. Since fandom, especially anime fandom, is so untouched in the realm of fiction, it's very important to me to make sure that I do it with justice. So my intent right now is to interview as many fans as I can, about their personal experiences and stories from being part of the community, past, recent, whatever you feel like saying, and basing much of the script from what I learn (in a still-fictional context of course. For sake of privacy, no real-life names, groups or events will be directly mentioned in the content of the play). Interviews will be done privately, through whatever means of contact is preferred, so everything shared will be kept entirely confidential. If done right, the project could express what anime, and the community surrounding it, means to those who actually are passionate about it, in a way that few other things can. But I can't do it right by myself.

If you're interested in being interviewed for the project, shoot me a PM, and feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Even at this early stage, I'm very much open to any feedback. Given the wealth of experiences and perspective from this forum, I would love to hear from you, however much you'd be willing to share with me.

Apologies for the lack of more concrete script/plot/production details at this time. All of those are, as of this posting, very much subject for change, and for my own reasons, it's my habit to be rather quiet about these things until I have more complete material to show. Please bear with me, and I promise that, as more info on the project becomes available, this will be the first place it'll be known.
SteveH
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:30 am
Anime Fan Since: 1979/82 (depending)
Location: Michigan and the Sea of Stars
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by SteveH »

It's good to not over-promise, that shows thought.

OK, gonna throw out a couple of things, because I think checking your goal can be useful. Ready? :)

1. Do not use any real anime or manga in the play. You don't need to, and the audience won't care. Nobody is going to see a reference to (show) and suddenly be struck with the desire to watch it. Plus, naturally, there's legal issues, licensing and so on. You just don't want to mess with that. It might fly in community theater but if your play gets attention, well.

You don't NEED real shows. The sub-genres of anime work just fine and it's easy to just play to the tropes. Fighting show. Harem comedy. Gag comedy. Giant robot and its variations. Sports. Historical. so on and so on.

And that brings us to the story of the play. It's not about anime. It's about obsession, and why some kinds of obsession are OK and others aren't. See also the video 'Otaku no Video'. Plays about the struggle for acceptance have been around since forever, because it's a universal theme. The climax is generally learning to understand that the only person that has to be convinced was themselves. It's OK to be me, because I'm the only me there is.

If you try to build a story structure around the idea that at the end mom and dad and big brother are suddenly going to embrace Super Fighter Robot Q because that's the protagonist's favorite show and find peace with him calling his hug pillow of character Michiko 'my wiifu', it's just going to fall flat.

Now, if you go with a 'Gulliver's Travels' narrative, where the protagonist experiences different aspects of fandom, a 'roadtrip' if you will, and they learn of and reject various obsessions as 'too much for me', well, it won't advance your central narrative of 'accept what I love!!".

Anyway, that's just a couple of random thoughts.
User avatar
Kyrant
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 11:12 am
Anime Fan Since: 2003-ish
Location: Bellingham, WA
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by Kyrant »

SteveH wrote:It's good to not over-promise, that shows thought.

OK, gonna throw out a couple of things, because I think checking your goal can be useful. Ready? :)

1. Do not use any real anime or manga in the play. You don't need to, and the audience won't care. Nobody is going to see a reference to (show) and suddenly be struck with the desire to watch it. Plus, naturally, there's legal issues, licensing and so on. You just don't want to mess with that. It might fly in community theater but if your play gets attention, well.

You don't NEED real shows. The sub-genres of anime work just fine and it's easy to just play to the tropes. Fighting show. Harem comedy. Gag comedy. Giant robot and its variations. Sports. Historical. so on and so on.

And that brings us to the story of the play. It's not about anime. It's about obsession, and why some kinds of obsession are OK and others aren't. See also the video 'Otaku no Video'. Plays about the struggle for acceptance have been around since forever, because it's a universal theme. The climax is generally learning to understand that the only person that has to be convinced was themselves. It's OK to be me, because I'm the only me there is.

If you try to build a story structure around the idea that at the end mom and dad and big brother are suddenly going to embrace Super Fighter Robot Q because that's the protagonist's favorite show and find peace with him calling his hug pillow of character Michiko 'my wiifu', it's just going to fall flat.

Now, if you go with a 'Gulliver's Travels' narrative, where the protagonist experiences different aspects of fandom, a 'roadtrip' if you will, and they learn of and reject various obsessions as 'too much for me', well, it won't advance your central narrative of 'accept what I love!!".

Anyway, that's just a couple of random thoughts.
Thanks so much for the thoughts! Input like that will be incredibly helpful going forward. Also, it shows me just how much I didn't really clarify in my first post.

In regards to using real show titles, of course this is also a concern that I've thought about as well, and while you're right that it would be safer to use generic fake titles or slightly altered names of real shows, I also am concerned that it may take away from the authenticity of the play. Certain shows, and characters from those shows, are huge defining things for the vast majority of fans, and, in my mind, to examine the fan community without also mentioning the very things they're fans of, would come across as a sort of falseness. Then again, having that distance from reality might also give the play a more universal appeal?

From what my understanding is, the legal issues only really apply when actual content or quotes from the shows are used. So, I can reference names and titles, just not in the context in which they originally appeared. So in theory, it should be fine, just as long as the works are kept only to references, and there is precedent for that as well. This is true in America, at least, I think in Japan it's a bit different, and certainly this has never stopped rights holders from raising complaints before. Something I'll need to look into, for sure.

As for your next point, I agree wholeheartedly that it's not about anime itself. Which is why, in the title of the thread, I wrote that it's about anime fandom. More specifically, I want the play to explore the community around the enjoyment of anime, with all that entails. A large factor in making me decide that I wanted to do this was reading accounts of how people got into anime, or particular aspects of fandom, and noticing how many of those stories had a really strong social aspect, in one way or another. Like, "I got into anime, which led to me joining this club, where I..." or, "and then I bonded with so-and-so over our love of this anime, but then she..." That sort of thing. What really got my attention was how those things tend to be skipped over, as if the very real element of human interaction that can come from being a fan of anime is somehow unreal, or insignificant. And because anime as a medium tends to be so isolated by the world around us, even other parts of fandom, that can be easy to internalize. But of course, those relationships, and all that comes from them, are incredibly important, if they weren't, then they wouldn't be mentioned so much. I think that the way what we take in and make ourselves a part of has a fundamental role in the way we relate to and interact with others, and if nothing else, that's what I want to explore, and also why I want to hear directly from others before I go forward.

Right now, the idea is that the setting of the play will be at a (again, fictional) gathering of fans, such as a con, or maybe a club gathering. The latter of which would require setting the play in a specific time period, which I'm honestly fine with, honestly anime changes so much that just picking one particular year and sticking to it would be the only way to make sure it keeps any relevancy. But the cast itself would be small, five characters, at most, with most, if not all of them, already being fans. The story of the play itself, would come from that specific moment of interaction, and all that entails, and yes, including how obsession can influence that. So, there's acceptance and understanding built into that, but in the form of an emotional exploration of those things rather than a blunt statement of "here's what this is." This is another reason why I've chosen theatre as a medium, it's really the best way to keep the scale small like that while still being engaging.

Hope that makes it more clear what I'm trying to do.
SteveH
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:30 am
Anime Fan Since: 1979/82 (depending)
Location: Michigan and the Sea of Stars
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by SteveH »

Hmmmm. Kind of 'Waiting for Godot' via 'The Breakfast Club' or something. :)

Structure is the key. Or a key. I might wonder if this would work better as a short film. If for no other reason the ability to shift scene and alter time.

The setting is going to create a problem. Fans who came into it in the '80s had a vastly different experience compared to the fans of the early '90s, the fans of the early 2k and of course the current fan. While interpersonal relations and the human experience are fairly universal, there are little things that creep in as hidden subtext.

There needs to be some way to explore or explain what all was going on around the culture. The internet, for one thing, was and is a significant factor, maybe the key factor.

A perfect example would be, in the '80s, let's pretend this site is an APA, or amateur press association. A massive fanzine produced by all the interested parties contributing something. A 'trib would generally be some pages written by the 'tribber commenting on the 'tribs of others, then original content (art, fiction, reviews, whatever). You make as many copies as there are members, mail it off to the central coordinator (or often called collator because--) who then gathers all the 'tribs, bundles it so every member gets one of everybody else's work, mails that out to each member (deducting money from a postage fund all contribute to) and the circle goes ever on.

whew. It wore me out just writing that! Imagine DOING that on a regular basis! Generally there was some kind of deadline to 'trib, if you skipped you could be removed from the membership. The point was generating content. Whatever you wanted (or whatever was the theme of the APA. Sometimes it was fan fiction written in 'round robin' style). So you would 'trib about this play. I would respond in my comments. You would respond, I would respond, others would chime in. It would take MONTHS.

MONTHS. Months to learn what people thought of your idea. Months to discuss even the bare bones, Can you even imagine that?

So how does one convey that on a stage? And take it to the next level. Say all of the above, but all the other members in the APA tear your idea to SHREDS. Just savage it. Not just 'hurr huurr da't stoopid!' but with well written essays that rip it to bloody tatters, citing all manner of things.

And you waited a month or two to read that. Boy you'd be hopping mad I wager. :) You might write a savage 'trib taking every point of argument and try to refute, explain, correct the different viewpoints. Or you might write a screed cursing all and vowing eternal hatred. But again, months for THAT to get to everyone.

The good thing about our internet world is, these things can happen over the course of minutes instead of months. :) But ALSO, corrections and explanations and just plain dialog can turn what might be a blood feud into friendship. Unless it's on Twitter, in which case burn it all down to ashes. :)

Hm. That might be an angle. Communication and Fandom.

BUT this doesn't address the 'otherness' of being a fan. Have you ever seen 'Otaku no Video'? It's really pretty much the last word on the concept, being a fictional history of Gainax kinda sorta.
User avatar
Kyrant
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 11:12 am
Anime Fan Since: 2003-ish
Location: Bellingham, WA
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by Kyrant »

That's a good comparison, haha. Thematically not really what I had in mind, but then again, that could also change.

I too considered the possibility of exploring the story through film, but I'm holding off on it for now. Not because it's a bad choice or the wrong one, it's just that I'm less versed in film than I am in theatre. But where it does have limitations, I still believe that plays have strengths that no other medium can replicate, so I want to take full advantage of that.

Time and setting are indeed going to be things to be considered, moving forward. It'll be hard to depict, even harder without delving into exposition. It's still amazing to me how much the community can evolve, even in a relatively short amount of time. So picking a set time period and sticking to it is essential. I don't want to try and explore all experiences of every fan at every point of time, that's just not feasible, but if I can capture one moment really well, I manage to reach some level of truth through that, then that will be enough for me.

And I really like the idea of the difficulties of communication in regards to fandom, particularly given how alone and isolated anime fans can be and feel. (when I was younger, I didn't know there were other fans in my area, at all.) Hence my idea to set the play at a gathering, where words and ideas can be exchanged in short periods of time. Now, having a full-length character arc occurring at a convention might not be entirely true to life, but, well, there are certainly advantages to doing this as a play, I can take some liberties.

And yeah, I've seen Otaku no Video, and agree that it's invaluable as a point of reference. I don't know if I agree that it's the absolute word on this subject, though, mainly because, well, the vast majority of fans don't go on to become Gainax. The Japanese anime fandom is intrinsically different from the Western fandom, and many fans are in it for different reasons than to be content creators. Even the sense of otherness you mentioned, could be approached from multiple different angles that Gainax didn't touch on. So even though I'm going off of a similar subject for my work, I'm not worried about repeating or overlapping with OtV, not at this stage at least.
SteveH
Posts: 645
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:30 am
Anime Fan Since: 1979/82 (depending)
Location: Michigan and the Sea of Stars
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by SteveH »

There is an aspect of early fandom that is really not discussed, yet I KNOW 100% it was often a driving force in why things were done, and got done. Sex. or more exactly, the male teen hope for sex, or at the very least dating.

OK, this might get a little uncomfortable. I ask everyone to just hang on with me here, I'll try to be a least horrible as I can. OK?

Right. To misquote Bill Murray in the movie 'Stripes', we are, on the whole, all mutants. It's the nature of being a fan to be 'outside' of what is considered normal society. We tend to be outcasts, rejected, seeking that basic human hunger for companionship of like minds (and that dynamic is a whole essay unto itself :) ). Anime fandom has its roots in Star Trek and Science Fiction fandom, and for a long time the demographics and patterns tracked identical. If one were to draw a picture of a typical fan they would be male, 20-50 pounds overweight (or otherwise not very physically fit), often with a beard (greater chance the older they are) and wearing glasses or contact lenses.

Mutants. Not the 'smooth ones'. Not your football captain or track star. Not the guys who got the dates and NEVER with the cheerleaders or the debs or any of the 'smooth ones' female side.

Everybody wants to find a date. And at the core, thanks in part to popular culture programming, EVERYONE wants the hot partner. Love is love and that is a wonderful thing but when you're a 16-20 year old guy, you want the hotness. It's natural.

And, sorry sorry sorry, back then that was NOT something to be found in fandom. I can only speak as a heterosexual man and have my bias, but for the most part the females that would join clubs were also not the 'Smooth ones'. And everything that implies. When an attractive female made an appearance it was, honestly, sometimes uncomfortable. A rare event. The better looking guys in the group would usually make a bee-line to chat them up, and the usual nonsense. If they stuck around to be part of the group they'd generally pair off with someone, or make an alliance with a group of females for protection. Lordy this sounds all natural history and stuff, huh? I'll burn thru this as fast as I can. :)

In SF and Star Trek Fandom the 'functions' of people split along gender lines. The females most often were writers, artists, editors, publishers of fanzines. Males tended to technical trivia, prop building and things of that nature. As a regular attendee of a convention dedicated to the 'zine world I'm sure I was looked at with the side eye but who cared.

But something happened with anime fandom. It stared gaining more and more a female base. Since most communication was long distance the sex impulse didn't rear it's snout as much and it was easier to be friends without complications. Clubs were still clubs (and following the SF club demographics) but lots and lots of people didn't belong to a club. Then conventions started up, and all those people around the country started running into each other. It was an interesting time. The proportion of attractive female to schlumpy male skewed drastically upward. If I were to make up a number from whole cloth, a SF con would be like 1 single, attractive, hetero female to 100 lumpy dudes. Anime cons at the start looked more like maybe 30 to 100. Then came Weekday Toonami and Gundam Wing.

If you look at any anime con now I would say the balance is way shifted, if it's not 1-to-1 it may well be 2 to 5 to 1 guy. BUT THEN it becomes sad because way way wayy too many of those females are 16 or so. *sigh* BUT REDUX there's just as many guys of the same age so that's OK for them. And it may even be that the mutation has changed because there's fewer of the out of shape (or just plain fat) fanboys. They're still just as socially clumsy and awkward as my generation was, back in the day. :)

There is one truism. It's always the other guy that's hooking up. Always. :)

I've blathered a lot but when you read various histories, keep in mind that like everything else, sexual politics play a part. NOBODY is ever going to confess "I went to the con in hopes of getting laid" but it's a factor.

And yes, I'm as guilty, if there is guilt to assign to this, as anyone. Maybe not of the going to the con expecting to get laid but I met someone I fell in love with at a con, and then the big fight that drove us apart was at a later con, so yeah. I did that stuff. Still feel it, too. ah well.

OK, so now everyone can dogpile on me for being a horrible sexist piece of crap. Even tho it's all true. :)
User avatar
DKop
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:19 am
Anime Fan Since: 1998
Location: Here is Greenwood SC
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by DKop »

Truer words have never been spoken Steve, I back you up, because im a dude too (in PC internet terms: a white, hetero, male. But labels are dumb).

It's interesting your bring that up, because if you think your the only one that's gonna allow people to dogpile on you, ill ease your burden a bit by joining in with you with that I'll say.

Since anime fandom is accepting more females, or should I say, more visually attractive underaged females, this is where we get to the whole "Cosplay is not Consent" rule. I'm not against this rule, because if I was, i'd be a big piece of crap, but I can empathize with mostly males which this rule was made for (and some females out there as well). This all relates back to the SEX part of what Steve was saying, because it's biologically infused in people to be physically attractive to the opposite/same sex, especially when such girls and guys are wearing less then what their parents would allow (or to the dads who should care what their daughters wear in public). Men are visual creatures, and to guys at conventions who have little self control and zero social skill around the females, this is when we call them out for being "creepy" for wanting sex with a half naked cosplayer.

I will personally say that how someone dresses themselves is going to equate the attention they will equally receive. If someone is showing off more skin and is dressing to look "sexually appealing" to the opposite sex (and the same sex as well), they are going to get the attention of "lets hit the bathroom stall and bang baby!" I will even say that the "creepers" that do this to women (since the CinC rule applies to them mostly) are people who are sexually into their anime characters being sexual objects in order to sell the show. So lets call it what it is, lust. So to a guy to see a real life version of their half naked anime women in public view thats not in animated form, they must think it's their lucky day, because their fantasy girl is right before them, and even accurately showcasing the physical features to a tee that they've been "fantasizing" about for who knows how long. If these people were never taught self control or even committed to stay away from people that will "get them going," then their actions lead to why we have these problems with every con having rapes and accusations on rape.

So im gonna say this; if people want to have respect, then dress respectfully. Don't think because they can dress however they want too they will be perfectly fine and think that the opposite sex is only admiring their costume work and thats all. They only thing gawkers like about the costume is the quickest way to get it off. I'm just being straight up real here coming from a guy. I do admire costume work as well, but as a guy, I'm admiring a whole lot more than that, but I've worked on looking away and move on about my business (which im still working on). I know that I don't want to be in a position that might lead me into doing something I shouldn't do to a female, so I make the decision to just stay away from them out of respect. Of course i'm gonna look, but I've had to work on the conscious decision to do the right thing and also look away. Some guys are cool with it and understand their faults, where as others are not and want to do anything they can to get laid. Like with Steve, of course I wanted to try and meet someone at a con every year, and hope that somehow when the planets aligned it would work in my favor for sex, which of course none of that ever happened, which I am GREATLY thankful for in the end.

Now I know of stories on this working the opposite where women aggressively try and have sex with guys at cons, which one story I know of ended with a girl who wanted a baby, found a guy at the con to screw in the mens bathroom, and 9 months later had her kid with no father. The thing is its not the only story out there, and I know of far worse ones as well. I can probably say that the guy this girl got it on with didn't care because hes getting sex, so he's going to feel hes got a win-win in the end.

I know this is coming from one viewpoint, but the overall idea is all the same no matter someone sexual orientation might be. To me, unless every guys mindset on how they view women can be changed, the CinC is just a mere idea, and not a fully enforced law. Didn't mean for this to go deep, but I felt that it goes with the whole Sex thing with cons like Steve said. Also my bad if this skewers off into an off topic conversation, but thats half the fun on forums posts.
User avatar
Akage
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:53 am
Anime Fan Since: 1985
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by Akage »

I'm going to bring in my female opinion, which is probably more law enforcement minded (it's what I do professionally) than anything else.

Don't kid yourself. To an extent, Cosplay is Consent. No one is forcing anyone to wear what they're wearing. It's great that an attendee likes a character like Hestia, whose blue string on her dress doubles as a bra, but it can be toned down or they can wear a different, less revealing outfit that the character also wears. Most people, especially those who spend months on their cosplay, like the attention. They want pictures of them on the internet to show their friends or possibly attract sponsorship. Cosplaying can be a lucrative gig, particularly if you're an attractive young woman and you can sew. Many cosplayers aspire to be 'cosplay senpais', which are starting to become popular at larger conventions like Anime Expo.

The argument for Cosplay is not Consent that many use is that people should be allowed to wear whatever they want without the fear of getting molested (or worse). That's like me saying that I should be able to walk to a bank in Compton, CA at 3 am and pull out cash without being mugged (or worse). Yes, theoretically, in a perfect world, you should be able to do that. But this is not the world in which we live. Just because you are able to do something doesn't mean that you necessarily should.

Revealing cosplayers want the best of both worlds. They want to be able to parade around in sexually provocative clothing *but* they don't want to be touched without first being asked. While people should be able to control themselves, the reality is that someone will always want more than a picture, and, depending on their hormones and mental state, they will find a way to do that. Staff can not be there 100% of the time to protect attendees and it is naïve on the part of the attendee and, in the case of minors, their parents, to expect that.

While I am very sympathetic to minors who find themselves in situations that might be too much for them to handle, I also at the same time don't understand why they're being dropped off at a con, often leaving their parents wearing a revealing costume, without parent/guardian supervision. While some cons require an adult of legal age to be at the con, I've seen that it's not enforced. Often, the adult merely registers the children and leaves them at the con. Most cons do not send staff to approach random minor attendees to inquire as to where their parent or guardian is at any moment, especially if they're doing something innocuous as milling around the facilities. It's gotten to the point that, at Anime Expo this year, vendors have been directed to turn their booth into a "safe space" should any attendee request it. Of course, this policy met a lot of resistance as many of those vendors pay serious cash for even the smallest of booth spaces. A half hour down time could mean a loss of several hundred dollars of revenue.

I agree that sex, and to a large part, underage drinking (as well as illegal substance usage like pot-friendly SakuraCon), are the main reasons why conventions are as successful as they are. Room parties are very big draw for many attendees, much to the frustration of convention (as many party attendees are 'ghosting' the con), hotel management and unaffiliated hotel guests. I disagree, however, that the majority of attractive attendees are women. I've seen a lot of very attractive men at cons too. I think that your observation might be based on your sexual preference. You've clearly never been to YaoiCon, a 95% female attendee con where the majority of these women are not physically attractive. Basically, conventions act as a place for a large group of young people to hook up, drink, etc. without having to deal with their parents, who are often under the impression that these are family friendly (and therefore safe) events.
User avatar
usamimi
Posts: 2783
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:00 pm
Anime Fan Since: 1987
Location: The Lonestar State
Contact:

Re: I'm writing a play about anime fandom (Work in Progress))

Post by usamimi »

Greetings, all.

I'm gonna have to step in here and close this thread.

I'm honestly a bit shocked to see an attitude of "if people want my respect, they have to dress in a way I deem appropriate." This is not acceptable.

Women, men, and non-bionary people have the right to wear whatever they want. If they want to wear a sexy costume, that's not--nor never will be--an open invitation to harassment. Period. End of story. And this forum won't tolerate posts that allude to thinking otherwise.

If you want to help Kyrant with their play, please contact them directly.
*:・゚・✧ TwitterThe Anime Nostalgia Tumblr & Podcast ✧・゚・:*
Locked