pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

The roughly mid-90's and earlier (generally pre-Toonami, pre-anime boom) era of anime & manga fandom: early cons, clubs, tape trading, Nth Generation VHS fansubs, old magazines & fanzines, fandubs, ancient merchandise, rec.arts.anime, and more!
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

Post by davemerrill »

One of Yamatocon's organizers was named Bobb Waller - yes, it's spelled with two "b"s - and the other was Mark Hernandez. Together, both Bobb and Mark ran two Yamatocons and two Animagic conventions.

I don't know Michael Lee Burgess.

In my experience, the "Satanic Panic" of the 1980s did not affect me at all. My family aren't religious fundamentalists and even though my brother and I played D&D and had rock and metal LPs, watched horror movies, and enjoyed other media that the religious activists condemned, it never caused a problem in our household. I did grow up in an area that's considered the "Bible Belt," but we never had protests at conventions or gaming stores or events. It was only very recently that religious demonstrators started appearing at fan conventions.

Nobody in my experience connected the Satanic child abuse allegations to fantasy or SF fandom in any way.

We did use the "Satanic panic" as background when we created the "Christian Crusade" hoax, but the hoax was not reflective of any real-world experiences on our part, just from what we'd see reported in the media.

I will say that at every SF convention there would be somebody talking about seeing a "church group" get offended at the gathering SF fans, but I never saw that in real life and I suspect such confrontations never happened. SF fans seemed to have a real persecution complex, which is part of why we did the "Christian Crusade" hoax.
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

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davemerrill wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:16 am One of Yamatocon's organizers was named Bobb Waller - yes, it's spelled with two "b"s - and the other was Mark Hernandez. Together, both Bobb and Mark ran two Yamatocons and two Animagic conventions.

I don't know Michael Lee Burgess.

In my experience, the "Satanic Panic" of the 1980s did not affect me at all. My family aren't religious fundamentalists and even though my brother and I played D&D and had rock and metal LPs, watched horror movies, and enjoyed other media that the religious activists condemned, it never caused a problem in our household. I did grow up in an area that's considered the "Bible Belt," but we never had protests at conventions or gaming stores or events. It was only very recently that religious demonstrators started appearing at fan conventions.

Nobody in my experience connected the Satanic child abuse allegations to fantasy or SF fandom in any way.

We did use the "Satanic panic" as background when we created the "Christian Crusade" hoax, but the hoax was not reflective of any real-world experiences on our part, just from what we'd see reported in the media.

I will say that at every SF convention there would be somebody talking about seeing a "church group" get offended at the gathering SF fans, but I never saw that in real life and I suspect such confrontations never happened. SF fans seemed to have a real persecution complex, which is part of why we did the "Christian Crusade" hoax.
Thanks you so much for the confirmation, as well as the personal experiences!

Say, I notice that a good number of old anime fans were also fans of comic books. What is your experience on this? And before anime tapes entered retailers, had there been manga in comic stores (before Dark Horse)? I have just chatted with two old Macross fans from Tulsa, and they mentioned their first exposure to the franchise was through the ROBOTECH fans hanging around a "StarBase 21" comic store.
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

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most everybody I knew in the anime fan scene in the 1980s was also a fan of SF, comics, movies, games, etc. Anime was part of the larger nerd culture. Still is, I guess.

Comic shops started carrying anime merchandise in the mid 1980s - distributors started importing Japanese magazines, books, Roman Albums, toys, model kits, and other merchandise around this time and anime items began to appear on comic book convention vendors tables and in local comic book stores. Comic shops were a good place to find other anime fans. You might see someone looking through an anime magazine and strike up a conversation, or the shop owner might say "Hey Dave, you like that anime stuff, meet Scott, he's into that stuff too." We had a few screenings of anime movies in comic shops, as well.

Comico started publishing Robotech comics concurrently with the TV series in 1985, and that became one more vector getting people into the fandom. Viz and Eclipse started publishing Area 88 and Mai The Psychic Girl soon afterwards.
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

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davemerrill wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:16 am

In my experience, the "Satanic Panic" of the 1980s did not affect me at all. My family aren't religious fundamentalists and even though my brother and I played D&D and had rock and metal LPs, watched horror movies, and enjoyed other media that the religious activists condemned, it never caused a problem in our household. I did grow up in an area that's considered the "Bible Belt," but we never had protests at conventions or gaming stores or events. It was only very recently that religious demonstrators started appearing at fan conventions.
I could personally write a light novel on my experience as both a nerd and a Christian in how I find all of this "Satantic panic" scare tactic to be both stupid and partly unscriptual, the last part I'd have to really watch myself on. To think that anime and SF cons are full of "heathenistic, demonic and immoral" gatherings of people is far from the truth. I did one of two Christian type panels at last years AWA and I got no negative feedback or backlash from it as I thought I might've, so there are people who are of the Christian faith that are nerds and enjoy going to cons like everyone else. I'm glad to have met John in our AWA circle of nerds the past couple of years by still keeping in touch over email, who he's also a believer.

The only cons I'm aware of there being some kind of protesters in front of the convention center would be Triad Anime Con and Animazement. I believe they're the same group that does both of these conventions since they're both in North Carolina. You get some interesting rhetoric coming from both the speakers and listeners. A couple of years ago you had some joker trolling the street preacher saying how "THIS GUY SAYS GOD HATES ANIME!" for attention while the preacher droned on and on changing up whatever point he was trying to make. It was a unique shit-show. From what I was told by some other people I've talked to at Animazement, the preacher that shows up at Animazement does the same thing at NC State campus, and pulls the same schick at the con. The person who told me about this is also another believer, which we just chuckled at how ridiculous these people can be. Then of course you got the famous Vic Mignonga video of him calling out the street preacher group at Triad Anime Con that one year. From what I gather that group is some knock off, wanna-be Westboro Baptist group or whatever.

The sad thing is that to this day you still have nutcases that go on low-grade Christian TV stations and preach how Pokemon is evil. If you want to see a recent case of that, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtmWU0Mwe7E

(I worked for this station for 3 months last year, I had my reasons for leaving, I'll just say that. I never had to meet this person who made these claims on Pokemon)

I will say that at every SF convention there would be somebody talking about seeing a "church group" get offended at the gathering SF fans, but I never saw that in real life and I suspect such confrontations never happened. SF fans seemed to have a real persecution complex, which is part of why we did the "Christian Crusade" hoax.
It kinda shows the level of gullibility people have, because when you make something sound too good in an argument, chances are its not.
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

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I honestly think that the expectation on the part of SF/comics/anime/fantasy gaming fans that all Christians are out to ban their books/movies/games/whatever is patently ridiculous. You'll find seriously religious people in all parts of fandom, and most can miss a Sunday service a few times year to go to a convention the same way they'd go to Scout camp or family vacations or any other reason. Most people are able to realize entertainment and fiction when they see it, even ministers. But if you're looking to get on TV or sell books, well, nothing's better than a good fake controversy - and if you're a fan who wants to feel special, you can claim somebody wants to ban your favorite TV show or game.

Moral panics are nothing new in American culture - they banned beer, pinball, dancing on Sundays, soda fountains, Playboy, video games, you name it, somebody somewhere has tried to ban it, and some other somebody has made a buck driving it into town past the roadblocks.

Lately the protesters we've seen at anime cons have been a fairly professional outfit with well-made signs and prepared speeches. They've shown up at Dragoncon, AWA, and Anime North, and basically they're not looking to save souls, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, or heal the sick, they're just looking for attention.
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

Post by DKop »

davemerrill wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:31 pm I honestly think that the expectation on the part of SF/comics/anime/fantasy gaming fans that all Christians are out to ban their books/movies/games/whatever is patently ridiculous. You'll find seriously religious people in all parts of fandom, and most can miss a Sunday service a few times year to go to a convention the same way they'd go to Scout camp or family vacations or any other reason. Most people are able to realize entertainment and fiction when they see it, even ministers. But if you're looking to get on TV or sell books, well, nothing's better than a good fake controversy - and if you're a fan who wants to feel special, you can claim somebody wants to ban your favorite TV show or game.

Moral panics are nothing new in American culture - they banned beer, pinball, dancing on Sundays, soda fountains, Playboy, video games, you name it, somebody somewhere has tried to ban it, and some other somebody has made a buck driving it into town past the roadblocks.

Lately the protesters we've seen at anime cons have been a fairly professional outfit with well-made signs and prepared speeches. They've shown up at Dragoncon, AWA, and Anime North, and basically they're not looking to save souls, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, or heal the sick, they're just looking for attention.
Whenever something is popular, you can bet some minister somewhere says its the devil. And that is usually coming from some sort of televangelist, the prophets of looking good on TV in the name of Jesus.

I remember you telling me there wasn't any protesters at AWA. Were they there last year? Because if they were, hell if I knew. Was this pre-Cobb Galleria era at the con or within the past few years? Dragoncon it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

Post by Fireminer »

Wasn't the 1980s the time when the religious right was elevated and given credential in America?

Protesting against anime in this days and age is ridiculous, but if you look at the televangelists and their followers, they are old people who do not know anything better, right (looking at Pat Robertson)?

Anyway, does anyone here know anything about Brian Cirulnick, the director of the Star Blazers fan film “Desslok's Revenge”?
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

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I didn't see them myself, but it's my understanding there were demonstrators at AWA in the little park across from the Waverly entrance. That space isn't Waverly or CGCC property, so there isn't much anyone but the actual property management can do about it. They didn't really cause any issues, so it's not that big a deal.

There was a guy in a Nazi outfit in that park as well. Any time you have a large event it's going to attract kooks and attention-seekers of all kinds.

The late 1970s - early 1980s were definitely the start of the modern religious right in America; Jerry Falwell had a powerful lobby that worked hard to elect politicians friendly to their views; Ronald Reagan, etc, as kind of a backlash to the perceived permissive culture of the 1960s and 1970s. We're still seeing the effects of their movement throughout American culture.

The demonstrators we're seeing at fandom conventions today don't seem to be motivated by any particular evangelical movement; they don't seem to be pushing a specific theological position other than "sin is bad and you'll go to hell if you aren't saved." I'm told that these demonstrators all come from the same area and take road trips to protest at these conventions - the Anime North protesters came from Texas, I think. That's a long way to march on a sidewalk. Seemed like young people for the most part. I dunno about these churches today. MY church youth group went canoeing in the mountains, that's what WE did, and it was a lot of fun.

Brian Cirulnick is a nice guy - I haven't had a lot of contact with him, but he once sent me a cel from Daioja for no reason at all, just a "here Dave, you might get a kick out of this." He's on Facebook but I'm not sure what he's been doing for the past few years.
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

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Say, Dave, did you have any experience publishing on any anime fanzine back in the 1980s? You and Matt Murray did write comics together, right?
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Re: pages from C/FO Magazine V2 #3

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I published a lot of fanzines and self-published comics in the 1980s. I edited the C/FO Atlanta newsletter for about two years, put out three issues of the anime zine "Oxygen Destroyer" in the late 1980s, made two Prince Planet / 60s anime zines, put together two issues of the national C/FO magazine (which were awful), and submitted art and articles to the EDC zine, various C/FO zines, and Anime Hasshin's newsletter "The Rose."

I wrote all of and drew 95% of the Ozone Commandos comics. Matt Murray drew some backgrounds and a few splash pages, and a few other friends pitched in and pencilled or inked a panel here and there.

http://cornponeflicks.org/ozcintro.html

Matt and CB wrote the film version of Ozone Commandos loosely based on the comic book, and had I known they were going to try and make a movie out of it, I would have changed things considerably.

Ed Hill wrote and penciled a 12 page segment of the sequel, "Ozone Commandos Go To Hell," Matt did some backgrounds, Shaindle Minuk penciled two pages, and everything else is all my work.

http://misterkitty.org/comics/ozc/ozcintro.html

The print Let's Anime started in 1991 and pretty much sucked up all of my writing about anime energy from then until 2000.
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