Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

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llj
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by llj »

usamimi wrote:
llj wrote:
greg wrote: I'm glad I am not the only one. Storywise, I couldn't say much since I didn't really take the time to try to absorb it, even with subtitles available. The art just too much for me.
I think one of the most underrated aspects of the original Sailor Moon anime was its crossover gender appeal, and I had to think that the less flowery character designs had a lot to do with that. There was a harder, shonen-esque style to the character designs that made the show ever so slightly more "masculine" in appeal.
Sailor Moon is a shoujo series, made for girls, by a feminist woman...so if any of those things make you cringe, then I'd stay away from the manga and the new series in general. It's not supposed to have a lot of shounen elements, and Naoko Takeuchi famously didn't like a LOT of the changes that were made to her story for the 90s anime. You can prefer the original anime, there's nothing wrong with that, but there's also absolutely nothing wrong with a shoujo series being flowery or feminine. Those aren't bad things, and I don't see there being anything wrong with there being a "lack of masculinity" in a show that's being targeted specifically for women and girls.
I'm talking strictly about the marketing success of the original anime. Not saying having a more "masculine" appeal is good or bad from a personal standpoint, but it was well known that the original show was more popular with boys than expected, which was unusual for shoujo anime at the time.

I haven't seen the new Sailor Moon yet, and probably won't for a while, so I have no real opinion on the new designs, personally, nor of the show itself.

I actually think there aren't enough REAL shoujo anime out there in the first place, ones that truly target girls and not just otaku. I thought some of the best anime from the 80s and 90s were the "purely" shoujo shows. So from a personal standpoint I wouldn't have anything against Sailor Moon going in a more "girly" direction this time compared to the first anime. But from a marketing standpoint, I'm just saying would be difficult to replicate all the factors that made the first Sailor Moon anime a mainstream success.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by usamimi »

All of the people working on this show in Japan have said in every interview that they're strictly focused on making this a series for women and girls who already love Sailor Moon, so pair that with the fact that it's not even airing on TV and I don't think that they're really thinking or caring about marketing this towards the male otaku audience at all, really. XD

And from what I've heard, the first episode got over a million views on Nico in a single day AND it's been consistently one of the top ranking shows on Hulu, so...I'm pretty sure it's marketing itself. ;) I have several male SM fans who watch it (including Nitro) and all of them know that it is, first and foremost, a show not specifically catered to them. But they seem to be enjoying it, anyway (nitpicks about the "QUALITY" animation aside, lol.) So, I'm not saying that guys can't enjoy it or shouldn't watch it, but the people making this series have outright said it's not supposed to be like the old one in that way, so if people were expecting that, of course they might be disappointed. Me, I'm kind of glad to see something that's being made that's being created specifically for women in mind. We don't see as many titles like that (titles for little girls, maybe, but even in the case of things like PreCure--which is huge with girls right now--the grown-up Male fans often STILL get catered to alongside the little girls...so sometimes it doesn't always seem like it's purely just for the little girls).

I don't want to come off as catty, it just surprises me that, even with all the interviews out there the Japanese crew has done talking about how this is a series especially made for the female fans who grew up loving Sailor Moon, that people still seem surprised that it's not like the old one. They seem to want to reference the old series as little as possible. That seemed clear to me before the show ever even started! But a lot of people seem angry or disappointed about that.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

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You know, talking about shoujo and male fans, I've always thought that the loli-appeal demographic officially started with Card Captor Sakura. They actually had merchandise for that show specifically made for otaku, male otaku. Even for Sailor Moon 1 and Utena, they never really targeted that demographic intentionally, even though they were pretty popular shows with males.

There are some Josei anime that drop every now and again, but they are often short lived. As for older skewing shoujo, I'm still waiting on an actual ending to NANA--in both anime and manga form! That was the last "real" shoujo anime I followed religiously.

I think it's very difficult to truly separate a remake from something that came before, especially if the original was a "huge" phenomenon. As a creator for a remake you can say that you're doing a totally different thing, but when the first one has such a large fanbase, it's difficult for the average viewer to mentally separate the two. That's why I always think that it's much easier to ask people to view something as a clean slate when you remake something that originally was really bad or really obscure instead. :lol: But that essentially defeats the financial purpose of a remake. Remakes are inherently dependent on the popularity of something that came before, the "built-in audience" as you were. So there's always going to be a comparison on some level. Of course, a creative staff shouldn't think like that so they will always prefer audiences to view their work as an original product on its own, but you know that the financers and producers are totally banking on the built in audience as well. People rarely remake something bad or obscure because there's no profit in that.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by usamimi »

llj wrote:You know, talking about shoujo and male fans, I've always thought that the loli-appeal demographic officially started with Card Captor Sakura. They actually had merchandise for that show specifically made for otaku, male otaku. Even for Sailor Moon 1 and Utena, they never really targeted that demographic intentionally, even though they were pretty popular shows with males.
I think you're right. I've seen a LOT of male fans for CCS come out of the woodwork when they announced the re-release here, even some claim that Sakura was "their first waifu". :? Which really kinda creeps me out...I followed the series in Nakayoshi before they started animating it, and I would NEVER have guessed any older dude would find joy in reading it. But, well...there ya go!
llj wrote:There are some Josei anime that drop every now and again, but they are often short lived. As for older skewing shoujo, I'm still waiting on an actual ending to NANA--in both anime and manga form! That was the last "real" shoujo anime I followed religiously.
oh, man...you, me, and about a million other people I know. I wish we knew more about why Yazawa can't seem to finish, but she's been really secretive about it. At this point, I'm starting to think it may never finish...the last things she drew were new covers for her Paraside Kiss re-release manga volumes, iirc. Other than that, not much. It's a shame because Nana is SO GOOD. ;____; And it's like you said, most josei stuff doesn't seem all that long, esp. in anime form. I've always assumed it's because it's harder to market an anime to grown ladies than it is to just throw something at the mainstream otaku crowd?
llj wrote:I think it's very difficult to truly separate a remake from something that came before, especially if the original was a "huge" phenomenon. As a creator for a remake you can say that you're doing a totally different thing, but when the first one has such a large fanbase, it's difficult for the average viewer to mentally separate the two. That's why I always think that it's much easier to ask people to view something as a clean slate when you remake something that originally was really bad or really obscure instead. :lol: But that essentially defeats the financial purpose of a remake. Remakes are inherently dependent on the popularity of something that came before, the "built-in audience" as you were. So there's always going to be a comparison on some level. Of course, a creative staff shouldn't think like that so they will always prefer audiences to view their work as an original product on its own, but you know that the financers and producers are totally banking on the built in audience as well. People rarely remake something bad or obscure because there's no profit in that.
Soooooo true! I wish more bad stuff got remade into GOOD STUFF, that'd be way better. (I mean, the remake of Judge Dredd, for example! That first movie was pretty awful...the new one? GREAT!) But yeah, it's like you said, financers don't ever seem to see it that way, unfortunately.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by greg »

llj wrote:I'm talking strictly about the marketing success of the original anime. Not saying having a more "masculine" appeal is good or bad from a personal standpoint, but it was well known that the original show was more popular with boys than expected, which was unusual for shoujo anime at the time.
Count me into the crowd of guys who liked watching Sailor Moon on TV back in the '90s, and also collected the entire series of CCS on DVD. I cannot recall the artwork of the SM manga vividly, but it seems to me that the artwork for the new anime is different and seems to be "girly girl" in a different fashion than the original manga.

I was going to mention Precure, and then I saw that Usamimi had mentioned it. The original Futari Wa Precure---the one with Honoka and Nagisa--- seems to have the most male appeal, and I think I may know why. First, look at the character designs: their uniforms look frilly, but not overboard. Unlike newer Precure shows, the two girls don't have totally overboard hair. Honoka (the one with short hair) doesn't automatically have extremely long, poofy hair when she transforms. With some of the newer Precure shows, the resulting bottom line that is conveyed to little girls (as it seems to me) is that short hair is not as nice as long hair. Second, the transformation sequences are no-nonsense. The two girls will strike a quick pose and -BAMF!- they're in their costumes. Often they'll transform as they are running. There are no protracted transformation sequences at all, whereas the newer shows mimick Sailor Moon's transformation scenes far more. I know at least one of the newer shows (I think it was Smile Precure) has the girls' transformation sequences has the girls applying makeup to their face with a compact (indoctrination, IMHO). Thirdly, Honoka and Nagisa strike kung fu-style poses and such. It just seems to be more "kickass girls" as its theme and the girls often have "serious business" faces.

I'm not saying that either way is better or not; I'm just pointing out why I think that the first Precure show has more appeal than the other ones. As a result, I think that Futari Wa Precure is more interesting, while my daughter likes the poofy poofy Precure shows more.
usamimi wrote:so pair that with the fact that it's not even airing on TV
I was not aware of that. I was wondering which channel it is airing, but you just answered my question.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by usamimi »

I made a comparison to the new character designs and the original manga: http://animenostalgia.tumblr.com/post/8 ... er-designs

I don't think the new anime is "girly girl" in a different way...I think it's pretty in the same vein? In fact, someone also made a video where they show panel-by-panel comparisons of Chapter 1 of the manga to episode 1: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2190 ... mbediframe

I honestly think that it could be even MORE girly! More sparkles, more shoujo-manga-lace-doily backgrounds, more flowers...the works. I basically want it to be as ultra-girly and mega-shojo as humanly possible. :mrgreen:

As for Precure, I have a handful of male friends that are very much into the new Happiness Charge series (they keep trying to get ME to watch it, actually) and say that HeartCatch was also really good...so the older male fans weren't just into the first season (in fact, most of the male fans I talk to say that while they thought it was ok, it wasn't their favorite, and most of them got into the show via the later seasons).

And yup--SMC isn't on TV. In Japan, it is a Nico Nico exclusive.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by ParaParaJMo »

To me, Sailor Moon just represents a time when I was getting into anime and it was one of the titles that was available for me to see during the infancy of the internet (aka AOhelL) and it was limited to 56k and what not. It had the distinctions that I love about anime and why I became a fan. Crystal being faithful to the manga does not change my feelings about Sailor Moon as a franchise as a whole or who it is intended for. I have many iphone cases for Sailor Moon and my friends and my students (I teach at a girl's high school) totally dig them.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by Animusubi »

llj wrote:
greg wrote: I'm glad I am not the only one. Storywise, I couldn't say much since I didn't really take the time to try to absorb it, even with subtitles available. The art just too much for me.
I think one of the most underrated aspects of the original Sailor Moon anime was its crossover gender appeal, and I had to think that the less flowery character designs had a lot to do with that. There was a harder, shonen-esque style to the character designs that made the show ever so slightly more "masculine" in appeal.
Honestly, I think this is why I liked the anime so much, and didn't care for the manga version. I like shoujo and girls manga in general, but find the themes to be almost too girly even for me. I grew up a tomboy and I liked boys cartoons and shonen stories alot more. I liked GI Joe and Power Rangers over anything targeted towards girls. Even Ronin Warriors is in my top 5 favorite anime, well above Sailor Moon, which would be more like in a lower 20 favorite anime.
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

Post by usamimi »

ryoran wrote:
llj wrote:
greg wrote: I'm glad I am not the only one. Storywise, I couldn't say much since I didn't really take the time to try to absorb it, even with subtitles available. The art just too much for me.
I think one of the most underrated aspects of the original Sailor Moon anime was its crossover gender appeal, and I had to think that the less flowery character designs had a lot to do with that. There was a harder, shonen-esque style to the character designs that made the show ever so slightly more "masculine" in appeal.
Honestly, I think this is why I liked the anime so much, and didn't care for the manga version. I like shoujo and girls manga in general, but find the themes to be almost too girly even for me. I grew up a tomboy and I liked boys cartoons and shonen stories alot more. I liked GI Joe and Power Rangers over anything targeted towards girls. Even Ronin Warriors is in my top 5 favorite anime, well above Sailor Moon, which would be more like in a lower 20 favorite anime.
There's nothing wrong with preferring the original anime, like I mentioned before. But there's also nothing wrong with preferring the original manga, which is the source material that it was taken from. Also nothing at ALL wrong with "girly" things, as I said before...as Sailor Jupiter's character taught us, you can be as tough as you want to be and still do & love feminine things like baking and wearing dresses. That's one of my favorite things about Sailor Moon--it's such a great feminist piece, no matter if you identify as an ultra-feminine woman, a tomboy, or something in between. There's no wrong way to be a woman. :D
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Re: Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

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Never said anything was wrong with anything. Shoujo in general is just not my cup of tea much anymore, and why I prefer the Sailor Moon original anime over even the original source material, or Crystal, because of how llj put it, which I resonated with.
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