Sailor Moon Crystal (new 2014 anime)

[usamimi]

Never said anything was wrong with anything. Shoujo in general is just not my cup of tea much anymore, and why I prefer the Sailor Moon original anime over even the original source material, or Crystal, because of how llj put it, which I resonated with.

And that's totally cool! The original anime is still considered shoujo. There's varying degrees of shoujo (much like there's varying degrees of shounen, seinen, josei, etc.) I want to make it clear that I don't care if Sailor Moon (any version) is anyone's favorite series or not--I just don't like hearing the term "too girly" used as a reason that something can't be good. If you're not a fan of traditionally feminine things, that's fine! We all have our personal preferences! It sounds like to me, you prefer the anime because you like that it doesn't always focus on romance, or because it has longer/more drawn-out action sequences, or because you prefer the key animator's/character designer's style of art more than Takeuchi's, maybe? Which, again, totally understandable and COMPLETELY valid reasons for liking a thing!! I'd much rather hear about those reasons (or other specific reasons!) on why someone might like a version of SM more than comments about it just being "too girly"--a term that really isn't good (and some might find hurtful).

[llj]

Just like to stress: I wasn't talking about "good" or "bad" in relation to something being "girly" or not...but from a marketing perspective, it stands to reason that taking into consideration the widest possible audience in your production would attract those outside the target demographic.

I'm not saying that how you market your show has any effect on its quality. A show or movie could be targeted at only 10 people in the world and still be a masterpiece. In fact, I'm well known for championing niche products and those things targeted at a narrower demographic over the "mainstream" stuff. I was just saying that it's easy to see *why* the original Sailor Moon anime managed to be more successful than your average shoujo. (That sounds familiar. I've been watching too much Hanna Barbera lately. )

[usamimi]

Just like to stress: I wasn't talking about "good" or "bad" in relation to something being "girly" or not...but from a marketing perspective, it stands to reason that taking into consideration the widest possible audience in your production would attract those outside the target demographic.

I'm not saying that how you market your show has any effect on its quality. A show or movie could be targeted at only 10 people in the world and still be a masterpiece. In fact, I'm well known for championing niche products and those things targeted at a narrower demographic over the "mainstream" stuff. I was just saying that it's easy to see *why* the original Sailor Moon anime managed to be more successful than your average shoujo. (That sounds familiar. I've been watching too much Hanna Barbera lately. )

Ah, thanks for clearing that up! I appreciate it. I like to think that the core themes of Sailor Moon speaks to a lot of people regardless of gender, though you're right that from a marketing standpoint, most would probably focus on those things (since the staff of the 90s anime did tweak it in parts, some more than others). It really is a shame that most media targeted for girls or women is looked down on from a marketing standpoint as too weak to sell. But that discussion could probably fill a whole new forum thread, I'm sure!

Also want to make clear that I wasn't taking personal offense to anything anyone said...I love this forum DEEPLY, and I just want to make sure we are as inclusive as possible to all genders, especially ladies, since I know we have a lot more active male members than female. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I want to encourage friendly discussion and set a good standard for all of us! ....if that makes any sense.

[llj]

It's a good discussion to have, I think, because we haven't actually talked about a whole lot of "really shoujo" anime in here AFAIK. I think Rose of Versailles is the only show I can think of that had some semi-involved posts in here, so it's always nice to have more. And anyway, this is the aging otaku forum, most of us are too old to muster up the energy to take things as personally as younger anime fans do, so I feel confident we can disagree on stuff and still get along.

I agree about your comment on the media about female centric entertainment being looked down upon. Sex and the City and the Twilight franchise, for example, seem to get much more criticism than similar quality works targeted at a comparatively less female-centric audience. I never understood that. Harry Potter, for example, is targeted at a more general audience, but people seemed to ignore that there are just as many extremely silly and befuddling elements in that franchise as there are in Twilight. Just as many crazy and insane fans, too.

[usamimi]

It's a good discussion to have, I think, because we haven't actually talked about a whole lot of "really shoujo" anime in here AFAIK. I think Rose of Versailles is the only show I can think of that had some semi-involved posts in here, so it's always nice to have more. And anyway, this is the aging otaku forum, most of us are too old to muster up the energy to take things as personally as younger anime fans do, so I feel confident we can disagree on stuff and still get along.

I like to think so, too! But I didn't want to come across as insensitive to other people's personal preferences, just in case. I'm really grateful for this forum--most people on Twitter or Tumblr take things like that as glaring personal attacks or something, which is simply not the case!

I agree about your comment on the media about female centric entertainment being looked down upon. Sex and the City and the Twilight franchise, for example, seem to get much more criticism than similar quality works targeted at a comparatively less female-centric audience. I never understood that. Harry Potter, for example, is targeted at a more general audience, but people seemed to ignore that there are just as many extremely silly and befuddling elements in that franchise as there are in Twilight. Just as many crazy and insane fans, too.

It's so true. I've seen a lot of male fans dismiss female-centric titles (like Sailor Moon, for example) as being something with "insane" fans who are "crazy", but I've seen plenty of "crazy" behavior from fans of, say, Dragon Ball. Every popular title (anime, manga, comic, anything, really!) will always have it's share of unsavory fans...they're just more noticeable because of their unsavory-ness.

[greg]

I think I was the first to use the term "girly" to describe the artwork, for lack of a better term, but I also made a disclaimer about my ignorance of the original source material. If it is closer to the original manga, then that would explain why the original show's character designs seemed more appealing to me.

One could say that Doraemon is definitely focused on children, yet it still can appeal to adults too. Crayon Shinchan is another example. They're for kids, but they have some all-ages appeal to them. It seems that a real "girly" show like Cardcaptor Sakura can have a unisex appeal and popularity boom. Sakura-chan was just too adorable, and who wouldn't swoon over a girl like that? Keroro Gunsou was definitely aimed towards boys: lots of Gundam models, spoofing lots of shounen series, plenty of opportunities to get Natsumi-chan into compromising positions to fulfil the T&A factor (moreso in the manga). But those froggy aliens are just too cute! My daughter loves that show.

I have to say that there are some shows or movies that are a bit "too macho" for my tastes. Then again, right now I'm wearing a Snoopy polo shirt, half-pants, and even Rilakkuma boxers. Stuff about American football or whatever strikes me as too macho. Stuff focusing on makeup and long eyelashes and stuff seems too girly to me. So whether it's stuff like this new Sailor Moon show or movies like Fast & Furious, I find these at the opposite ends of the spectrum and it's just not my personal cup of tea. My wife's sister's favorite anime was Sailor Moon while growing up, but my wife's favorite was Lupin the 3rd. Her sister is into makeup and shopping for clothing and shoes, but my wife's never worn makeup and she doesn't care to shop for clothing. At the same time, my wife loves stuffed animals and collects them like crazy, while her sister never cares for those.

My daughter really liked that first episode of Sailor Moon Crystal. She also likes catching frogs and playing with insects. Me saying that this new show is a bit too "girly" was just me expressing my own personal tastes, but I didn't mean to say that in a negative way. I think freaking out over something as harmless as a potato bug would be too "girly" in a negative way. If somebody described something like MD Geist or Hokuto no Ken as being too "macho," I wouldn't really mind.

[Animusubi]

My wife's sister's favorite anime was Sailor Moon while growing up, but my wife's favorite was Lupin the 3rd. Her sister is into makeup and shopping for clothing and shoes, but my wife's never worn makeup and she doesn't care to shop for clothing. At the same time, my wife loves stuffed animals and collects them like crazy, while her sister never cares for those.

Your wife sounds a lot like me. Just by comparison, my sister and I are opposites in a similar fashion. I like old anime, she likes new anime. I have never worn makeup except at my prom, she is always wearing makeup and buying clothes. I've had the same clothes for probably 5 years.

[greg]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Not to hit on your or anything, but you seem to be my type of girl. I've a thing for tomboy-types. I hear other guys complaining about how many types of shoes their wives have and how they get dragged along with them on clothing trips and such, and I am just thankful that my wife isn't like that. But as Usamimi mentioned, there really is no real "wrong" way to be a girl. (Well, I guess the grumpy frumpy, mouth-breathing, man-hater types have an unhealthy attitude, but they're just people with a of hurts and anger issues, so that's kind of a different story.)

[Animusubi]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Not to hit on your or anything, but you seem to be my type of girl. I've a thing for tomboy-types. I hear other guys complaining about how many types of shoes their wives have and how they get dragged along with them on clothing trips and such, and I am just thankful that my wife isn't like that.

I used to see that stereotype a lot growing up, and it always bothered me. I never wanted to be that of woman growing up. Even my grandparents would give me jewelry, and I asked them to give me action figures or anime VHS tapes instead, if they ever bought me anything as a gift. I mean, I like having lots of clothes probably as much as any other girl, but shoes were NEVER something I got into. I mean, the prices of makeup and women's products, I hate even buying face wash that's more than $3.

[greg]

I've cleaned up several posts that went off on a tangent. The discussion has been civil and all, but this has made me realize a disparity in our English vernacular. One can dismiss a show like "Aikatsu" as being "girly" because primarily little girls will only be interested in it, but what about a show like Kamen Rider that targets tiny litle boys? Do you say it's "boy-y"? We don't have such a word, so in a way, it isn't fair. It's something I've never really thought of. There's been no intentional chauvenism here, but it's made me think about how I had phrased my criticism like that. We've had an interesting conversation, and we can understand each other through discussion. That's what has set us apart from so many other anime forums. I've actually enjoyed the discussion about what gives a shoujo series a unisex appeal, and conversations here have been rather quite for the past several weeks anyway.

So again, I've deleted a few posts that went on a tangent that was not necessary. I'm not asking anyone to be "politically correct" or anything. We could understand each other's point of view through discussion. I don't really feel like I need to say anything as a mod here. Actually, I usually forget that I am a mod because this is a mature forum and doesn't really require moderation.