Old Anime VS New Anime

[Jen526]

I'm up to episode 12 on Space Brothers and enjoying it... though yes, it has *quite* a slow pace. I was starting to get worried that they'd run out of time to do any actual space stuff, but apparently it's going to be 50-ish eps instead of 26-ish?

I agree about Macross F, too. I liked what I've seen of it. I loved how certain elements were clearly designed to bring to mind events from the original in a homage-y sort of way, but it wasn't so slavish as to be a direct rehash.

I guess there really doesn't seem to be much space-based sci-fi nowadays. My favorite sci-fi series in the last 5-6 years are probably Kaiba, Real Drive (RD Sennou Chosashitsu), and Eve no Jikan (Time of Eve). They're all solid science fiction with real *ideas* behind them (vs. adventure shows with sci-fi trappings) but all of them are more in the cyber-vein of science fiction. Robots and cyberbrains and exploring identity and humanity in a world where big elements of the human experience can be cyberized.

I've heard good things about Denno Coil, but haven't gotten around to that one yet.

[llj]

Well, I'm not exactly sure there were a TON of "good" sci-fi even in the 80s and 90s. There were certainly more shows in that genre, but the ratio of crap to quality probably wasn't much different than today.

Not just the "hard" sci-fi is in limited quantities, but just traditional, run of the mill, genre sci-fi. That's why I'm looking forward to checking out Moretsu Pirates. It may or may not be truly "hard" sci-fi, but at least it's still certifiably sci-fi. I've been hankering for a show about about people on a spaceship again, but as Jen said, we just haven't had a lot of those in the past few years (unless you count the latest Gundam rollouts).

At points the landscape got so dry I was even considering picking up some The Girl Who Leapt Through Space DVDs blindly (good thing I didn't).

There's not a whole lot of truly new SF that I know of; it seems that it's mostly a rehash of older shows like Yamato and Gundam (a new retelling of the 0079 war called Gundam Origins will be coming out). If there are, I'd welcome anybody to please enlighten me on what I am missing out on.

It's not really that new and it's not "hard" sci-fi, but Galaxy Railways was pretty good. Probably the best of the post-80s Matsumoto anime. It definitely captures the romantic feel of space like the Matsumoto stuff of his glory years.

And currently I'm watching Project Blue Earth SOS, which is a fun little throwback/homage to crazy 1950s sci-fi, with unknown alien invaders, UFOs, ray beams and the like.

There's also Mardock Scramble, which apparently resembles some of those mid 90s cyberpunk anime, but I can't verify since I haven't seen any of the OVAs/movies.

I think the only kind of "hard" sci-fi that speaks to modern viewers is the Ghost in the Shell franchise. It really predicted how dependent on the web we'd be so many years later, and keep in mind the manga started in the 80s. It also predicted that terrorism (in the form of cyber-terrorism, of course) would become one of the biggest issues of the modern world. And its ideas on how widespread cybernetic "enhancements" in humans would be...is that really so far-fetched given modern society's increasing appetite for artificially-based body improvement--whether it be for health OR cosmetic reasons? Shirow really is pretty smart. He has (or had) a keen sense of charting where social, political and technological trends will go...when he puts his mind to it. But it appears right now he has completely given in to his libido as an artist, so sadly he hasn't created anything relevant in years.

While GITS has been pretty popular in North America, I hear it doesn't do that well in Japan. I'd be down for a third TV season of the SAC series.

[greg]

Ah yes, Uchuu Kyoudai/Space Brothers. They just had a live action movie of that come out earlier this year in Japan. I see the manga and posters for that pretty often here in Japan.

You're right about Galaxy Railways. I even own that on DVD. Haven't watched it yet, though. My assertion about Macross F was basically just going by what people were saying online, that it is essentially a retelling of the original story with new characters. I thought that was disappointing, but if they are wrong, then I look forward to seeing this. If it is a continuation of the storyline, then that's good news.

I'm not down on reboots to older shows like Yamato and Gundam, but I'm just interested in something new. And I do enjoy mecha shows, but the whole "defend the earth against alien invasion with a mecha" gets old, even when it's good. I'm tired of cliched mecha shows and how they've become infested with bouncing titties and such.

And SF needn't be just hard SF. Dirty Pair was great space opera, as were so many other anime shows in the 80s. Gundam has always been limited to this solar system, yet it still captures the spirit of space opera from carrying the adventure from colony to colony.

OK, so Project Blue Earth, Mardock Scramble, Space Brothers, Kaiba, Real Drive, Time of Eve, and Denno Coil are all worth checking out. I'm not sure if my language ability is at the point where I can make much sense of these shows, but maybe they are available on Crunchyroll, which I've never used yet (although I bet that site is blocked within Japan).

[gaijinpunch]

One thing I've noticed here in Japan, is you can rent ( for like 500 yen a piece?!) the new Yamato series. I think there's only 4 episodes. It looks far more action-packed than the original, and it's been slightly moe-fied. I've not really checked it out, but it's a good encapsulation of old vs. new. I know Reiji Matsumoto has tried to keep this franchise alive for years but I think it's one whose story has been told. Let it die, tell another story.

[_D_]

One thing I've noticed here in Japan, is you can rent ( for like 500 yen a piece?!) the new Yamato series. I think there's only 4 episodes. It looks far more action-packed than the original, and it's been slightly moe-fied. I've not really checked it out, but it's a good encapsulation of old vs. new. I know Reiji Matsumoto has tried to keep this franchise alive for years but I think it's one whose story has been told. Let it die, tell another story.

Since you are in Japan, you are lucky enough to go and see the theatrical release of the 2199 series. There should be another 4 episode installment later this month. So far, I'm enjoying it a lot. Apparently, there are major changes in the story that start with the upcoming 4 episodes, so I am keen to see what they are. Star Blazers was one if the first anime titles I followed back when it first aired in the US and Canada so it will always hold a special place in my heart...

[Animusubi]

Macross F actually helped push me along to watch ALL of the other series. The only one I didn't watch was Macross 7. I want to watch it, but it was hard for me to get into. I have a great appreciation for Macross F, and if you have watched all the series, there are little gems in it that pay tributes to older series, and with that, I became a fan of Macross altogether.

The animation certainly is something I miss. Everything seems a bit lazier. The only studio's animation I love today would be Kyoto Animation.

DBZ paved the way for shonen shows, and yes, because people grew up on it, they also grow to love the ones that are after DBZ. Even I moved onto Naruto, Hitman Reborn, Bleach, and One Piece. And only One Piece has turned out to be unique to me, and truly a well crafted series. The others I pretty much gave up on. All my friends who grew up with DBZ, their favorite shows are shonen series.

I actually TRY to watch new series here and there. Clannad was probably the best I had seen in a long time, followed by ToraDora. I hadn't watch any anime back then that was as heart wrenching as these shows (though I'm sure they exist). But I also watched alot of stinkers. K-On was...really just a waste of time. Cute, absolutely. Funny, usually. Anything special, no way. I finished Hyouka recently too, beautiful animation. Was it also a waste of time, I felt like it. And Madoka Magicka. I ended up watching it because EVERYONE kept talking about it, and how good it was. I honestly didn't see anything special about it. I hated the animation. I hate cutesy and gore mixes. Alot of things bothered me about it. Only 10% of new things I watch each year end up being good. When I watched anime in the 90's? Almost everything I picked up I loved. The only thing I remember liking that didn't live up to my expectations upon re-watch was the Samurai Showdown movie. Haha.

Conventions make it harder for me too. I went to one this year, and even cosplays are no longer what they used to be. Kids are cosplaying a series called Homestuck that's not even anime! And that was 90% of the convention for me. I was with a friend and nothing worth watching was playing in any of the viewing rooms. I moved on and go to Comic Con's now, but it makes me sad to move on from anime conventions.

[greg]

I don't even know what Homestuck is. Never heard of it. So Madoka Magicka is a mix of cute and gore? Yuck. That's enough to turn me off, too. Comic cons are the only thing I'd ever go to as well. I've never bothered going to an anime convention. I wanted to go to AX back in '95, but that never happened.

[Animusubi]

I don't even know what Homestuck is. Never heard of it. So Madoka Magicka is a mix of cute and gore? Yuck. That's enough to turn me off, too. Comic cons are the only thing I'd ever go to as well. I've never bothered going to an anime convention. I wanted to go to AX back in '95, but that never happened.

It's a English Webcomic (that I could not get into, and I tried) that has a large fandom, most being into anime, thus why it's been a big cosplay scene in the last two years. It's growing at anime conventions, more than others. It's really sad. The characters are grey and demon-like with candy corn like horns and pretty normal clothing. I saw no good cosplays this year, and these dominated the hallways. :/

I feel like the tone of Madoka doesn't suit the artstyle at all. I get heavily turned off my moe big eyed girls being in pretty mature situations that warrant an R rating. Especially when violence is involved. Had Madoka a different design, I think I might've liked it better.

Comic Cons have way more to offer, and just enough anime to satisfy me. Especially since I've been going to San Diego Comic Con for the past 4 years.

[llj]

I feel like Madoka was made specifically for those anime fans who hopped on the anime bandwagon during the early 2000s. Those fans tended to consume everything in sight (at least, everything post 1998), and chances are, a large majority of those shows were "moe" shows and during this time they had also become very familiar with magical girl shows, at least when it came to making fun of magical girl cliches (I think magical girl shows sort of lost their appeal with modern fans after CCS, which was held up as a holy grail of sorts for a long time)

So Madoka comes along with magical girl moe and gore, and those fans are like "Hell yeah!" and the idea of "dirtying up" the old magical girl rules and having bad things happen to moe characters probably appeals to a very specific type of fan that grew up with these cliches, and later grew to "hate" them. To them it's like the show is saying "Look! We're turning the rules on its head! Magical Girl Deconstruction!" and stuff like that.

Personally, I never ever hated magical girl shows enough to need it to be "deconstructed". And I don't get a huge kick out of seeing moe girls in horrible situations because I largely managed to "dodge" the moe phenomenon in my 2000s anime collecting. So I never really developed enough of a hatred for moe to "appreciate" what Madoka puts these types of characters through. I think maybe only 10% of my collection could be considered really "moe" and I own a fair bit of shows made in the 2000s. But I tended to cherry pick in my purchasing and bought mostly seinen and shoujo shows (which usually weren't moe since they were made for girls--the characters in shoujo are more "pretty" then "moe") I don't own many shows that are based on romance/harem visual novels, which was a big anime trend during the mid 2000s. Those visual novel-based anime were really big on moe designs.

It should be said that Evangelion was considered a "deconstruction" of mecha tropes as well, and even though I like Eva, I've always bristled at that description of it too. I gravitated more to the fact that it was a very personal show for Anno at the time, and I respected the fact that he was able to put so much of himself into the show. I didn't really care that it "deconstructed" mecha tropes, I cared that it was a show that meant something to the director personally.

So while I can understand the popularity of Madoka with modern anime fans to some degree, it just doesn't speak to me at all. I actually really like Sailor Moon--and I'm one of the few who liked the TV series better than the manga too. For many younger fans, Sailor Moon the TV series represents some of the worst aspects of magical girl cliches. But that never bothered me. I also enjoy Wedding Peach. And unlike most modern anime fans, I don't think CCS is the pinnacle of "straight" magical girl shows--people who like Madoka tend to think CCS is the best "real" magical girl show ever made (I actually like Sailor Moon better). I have no real feelings on the moe trend, since it was not a phenomenon that played a huge part in my anime viewing habits. So the desire to see all these "cliches" turned on its head has no appeal for me. I also think that Madoka wants to have its cake and eat it too, because it clearly still uses the fact that these characters are "moe" as a means to sell the show to the otaku audience. And there are still plenty of moments to satisfy moe fans even as they "deconstruct" them.

[Animusubi]

So while I can understand the popularity of Madoka with modern anime fans to some degree, it just doesn't speak to me at all. I actually really like Sailor Moon--and I'm one of the few who liked the TV series better than the manga too. For many younger fans, Sailor Moon the TV series represents some of the worst aspects of magical girl cliches. But that never bothered me. I also enjoy Wedding Peach. And unlike most modern anime fans, I don't think CCS is the pinnacle of "straight" magical girl shows--people who like Madoka tend to think CCS is the best "real" magical girl show ever made (I actually like Sailor Moon better). I have no real feelings on the moe trend, since it was not a phenomenon that played a huge part in my anime viewing habits. So the desire to see all these "cliches" turned on its head has no appeal for me. I also think that Madoka wants to have its cake and eat it too, because it clearly still uses the fact that these characters are "moe" as a means to sell the show to the otaku audience. And there are still plenty of moments to satisfy moe fans even as they "deconstruct" them.

I actually really love the Sailor Moon anime, much much more than the manga. I never really liked the manga, mainly because it wasn't good storytelling. Things happened too fast at times, I could sometimes not even tell what's going on in the page, and it's use of tone is just too much at times. It just wasn't an enjoyable manga to me.

I love CCS too, and I don't really like to say I like one over the other, because without speaking about the magical girl aspect, I think they are fairly different. Overall I liked Sakura much more than I liked Usagi, but I never really liked Usagi much to begin with. But I liked the stories in Sailor Moon more.