Laserdiscs

[Drew_Sutton]

It just went by studio/publisher. Criterion and Pioneer did higer quality stuff, so they always went with proper sleeves. Some studios would do a deluxe edition that had extra discs/features with proper sleeves, and a barebones edition that used the elephant condoms. And then some studios were just cheap and always used the elephant condoms. What is odd, though, is that LDs were more popular in Japan and generally higher quality, but a huge amount of my Japanese LDs had the elephant condoms, I couldn't hazard a guess as to why though.

Yeah, no Criterion and maybe one or two Pioneer discs in my anime collection. I was surprised, too, when most of my US LDs didn't use elephant condoms but the vast majority of my JP ones did. I guess I wonder why that is - were anime LD buyer's considered a more savvy consumer, thus expecting a higher quality product in US/CA while in Japan, the packaging was targeted for a broader demographic (since anime fans were already paying higher costs for a video product anyhow)?

[Ben]

It just went by studio/publisher. Criterion and Pioneer did higer quality stuff, so they always went with proper sleeves. Some studios would do a deluxe edition that had extra discs/features with proper sleeves, and a barebones edition that used the elephant condoms. And then some studios were just cheap and always used the elephant condoms. What is odd, though, is that LDs were more popular in Japan and generally higher quality, but a huge amount of my Japanese LDs had the elephant condoms, I couldn't hazard a guess as to why though.

Yeah, no Criterion and maybe one or two Pioneer discs in my anime collection. I was surprised, too, when most of my US LDs didn't use elephant condoms but the vast majority of my JP ones did. I guess I wonder why that is - were anime LD buyer's considered a more savvy consumer, thus expecting a higher quality product in US/CA while in Japan, the packaging was targeted for a broader demographic (since anime fans were already paying higher costs for a video product anyhow)?

I think you may have figured it out. It never occured to me, but you are right, LDs in the US were always aimed at the cinephile/AV enthusiast, it had become clear by the early 90's that VHS had won the day with the average consumer and it was mainly the up market publishers who kept making them. Because of that, I'm guessing they assumed that their target customer would often pay more for better packaging, sleeves, extra features/audio tracks on additional discs, etc. A lot of LDs came with lavish editions better than any format since, in the big boxed sets with art books and other goodies (see The Abyss, The Nightmare Before Christmas, etc.). In Japan, LDs were mass produced on a larger scale and targeted to more of a mid-market audience, and I have noticed that although the discs themselves were usually of better quality, the sleeves and packaging generally weren't up to the quality of say a US Criterion release (granted there were exceptions like End of Evangelion). So, your idea that the cheaper sleeves were used because Japanese publishers were going for a broader demographic (and therefore needed to keep the price down) makes sense to me.

[greg]

I visited the Hard Off in Kofu, Yamanashi-ken again, this time with my good friend who came to visit from America. Ths time, I had time to properly scour through all the bins to find the anime LDs. Oddly enough, I found an American LD of Voltron! Weird finding that in Japan! It was the lion Voltron.

Anyhow, I bought Macross II. One episode per disc. Whoever said that the Japanese are efficient?



Four of them still had the plastic wrap and obi. Neat!

[Heero]

I dunno where I stand on the story, but I LOVE the art for Macross II.

[gaijinpunch]

Whoever said that the Japanese are efficient?

Someone who has never, ever stepped foot in a Japanese office.

[SteveH]

I'm not sure what you mean by the "elephant condom" sleeves, though. The standard ones I have are those very thin, transluscent plastic sleeves. I think I only have a few LDs that come in a paper sleeve. They aren't really clear, but transluscent. Is that what you mean?

Those transluscent ones are the "Elephant Condom" ones, that was a term coined back in the 90's by AV enthusiasts. The paper ones, or better yet the more solid cardboard-like pressed paper ones, are the ones to get. I don't mean to give you a heart attack, but if most of your LDs are in those, you really need to consider upgrading to a better quality sleeve if you want to preserve them. A great example of this, all Criterion LDs came in paper sleeves, because they were aimed at the cinephile market and knew their customers intended to keep their LDs for a very long time. You don't have to buy the ones like I linked, those are just the best. There are some good mid-range paper ones that can be purchased for around 100 sleeves for $50. That's actually why you still see so many new LD sleeves for sale on Amazon, there is a niche LD collecting market that keeps them in demand. Of course, they're great for vinyl too, so if you have a big vinyl collection you might want to buy in bulk.

Wow, um, I'm not sure what all mis-information was going around then but man, paper is the LAST thing you want as a sleeve.

Paper can scratch the surface.

Paper can generate static electricity, causing dust to cling to the disc, which then becomes abrasive boulders trapped in the paper.

the plastic sleeves used on Japanese LPs (and I assume by extension LDs) are actually pretty anti-static. I only replaced them with special Discwasher brand sleeves out of habit. I bought a LOT of those things in the '80s.

[Ben]

I'm not sure what you mean by the "elephant condom" sleeves, though. The standard ones I have are those very thin, transluscent plastic sleeves. I think I only have a few LDs that come in a paper sleeve. They aren't really clear, but transluscent. Is that what you mean?

Those transluscent ones are the "Elephant Condom" ones, that was a term coined back in the 90's by AV enthusiasts. The paper ones, or better yet the more solid cardboard-like pressed paper ones, are the ones to get. I don't mean to give you a heart attack, but if most of your LDs are in those, you really need to consider upgrading to a better quality sleeve if you want to preserve them. A great example of this, all Criterion LDs came in paper sleeves, because they were aimed at the cinephile market and knew their customers intended to keep their LDs for a very long time. You don't have to buy the ones like I linked, those are just the best. There are some good mid-range paper ones that can be purchased for around 100 sleeves for $50. That's actually why you still see so many new LD sleeves for sale on Amazon, there is a niche LD collecting market that keeps them in demand. Of course, they're great for vinyl too, so if you have a big vinyl collection you might want to buy in bulk.

Wow, um, I'm not sure what all mis-information was going around then but man, paper is the LAST thing you want as a sleeve.

Paper can scratch the surface.

Paper can generate static electricity, causing dust to cling to the disc, which then becomes abrasive boulders trapped in the paper.

the plastic sleeves used on Japanese LPs (and I assume by extension LDs) are actually pretty anti-static. I only replaced them with special Discwasher brand sleeves out of habit. I bought a LOT of those things in the '80s.

There is plastic inside the paper, it is a higher quality than the plastic used in the "elephant condom" sleeves. If you ever buy a Criterion LD, you'll see what I'm talking about with "paper" sleeves. The paper/cardboard is used to maintain the form the of the plastic, it never touches the actual disc.

EDIT: Here is a video showing the quality of their sleeves (and the others made like them), for their release of Se7en. Skip to the 2:45 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBrl93pzMp4

[Drew_Sutton]

I dunno where I stand on the story, but I LOVE the art for Macross II.

Especially on those disks. I remember liking the animation and designs in the OAV the first few times I saw it, too, but now, I'm not so sure. Curious, greg, if you don't mind, how much did you wind up paying for them? This is more about researching pricing at HARD OFF (which may have a ton of variants I am not taking into account now) than actually feeling compelled to buy Macross II.

Oddly enough, I found an American LD of Voltron! Weird finding that in Japan! It was the lion Voltron.

I find that extremely odd, too. Like, I wonder if this is some relic from some ultra-weird otaku estate sale where he was buying up LDs but the lot or some curiosity about an English version of a cartoon that didn't perform all that well in Japan.

Much less surprising is that the American Voltron LD was of the GoLion portion. If it had been Vehicle Voltron (Dairugger XV), I'd have called you a filthy liar.

[SteveH]

There is plastic inside the paper, it is a higher quality than the plastic used in the "elephant condom" sleeves. If you ever buy a Criterion LD, you'll see what I'm talking about with "paper" sleeves. The paper/cardboard is used to maintain the form the of the plastic, it never touches the actual disc.

EDIT: Here is a video showing the quality of their sleeves (and the others made like them), for their release of Se7en. Skip to the 2:45 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBrl93pzMp4

I think one of the problems is insisting on using the phrase 'Elephant condom'. It's inelegant, inaccurate and something a 12 year old would think is pithy. 30+ years of being an A/V geek, NOBODY I've known has used that term for the Japanese media industry standard plastic disc sleeve.

OK, Criterion used the same kind of sleeve I've used for my LPs since the '70s. An anti-static plastic lined paper sleeve. So let us use precision in our language, as words mean things. Plastic lined paper. This will cause much less confusion.

I don't think Discwasher sells these plastic lined paper sleeves anymore. The brand is, amazingly enough, still around but much reduced from the heyday of the '70s. *heh* I still have my special Discwasher velvet cleaning brush for LPs, and the phonograph stylus cleaning brush, and the anti-static anti-rumble felt turntable pad. The things we did for audio. I don't think it ever got quite that bad with video discs...

Oh, that Voltron LD that ended up in Japan. I suspect it was some super otaku who brought that over, I don't have any memory of GoLion having a LD box release (doesn't mean it didn't exist, just it would have snuck under my radar), it was pretty much a 'lost' show until recently, like 21st Century recently. There is speculation that it was Mediablasters and their Voltron license that triggered the Japanese DVD GoLion release. Take that with a grain of salt. So if one were a GoLion maniac, I would assume one would grab ANYTHING with an intense fever.

[davemerrill]

I saw a Criterion edition LD of Akira in a shop in Kanda-Jinboucho on our first trip to Japan. Of course I also saw some 1970s Charlton comics in a shop in the same neighborhood. I'm a magnet for crap.