The Old School Otaku Lounge

Finally got around to Devil Hunter Yohko. It may seem kind of quaint today, but it's still fun for magical girl enthusiasts (I consider Yohko to be a slightly more ecchi and gory version of Sailor Moon). It's interesting to see the progression in styles from episode 1 to 6. Episode 1 is clearly the product of 80s anime trends, even though it came out in 1990. By episode 6, though, we're clearly in the mid 90s with far more stylized character design work and more discreet with onscreen nudity. It reminded me of just how much more liberal the 80s OVAs were. By the mid 90s, anime in general were doing a lot more self censorship, like strategic blocking and/or sometimes even nippleless bodies. Say what you will about 80s nudity, but at least they went out and showed everything. Less of these peekaboo shots or whatnot. Oh the days when fanservice actually meant you got to see a nipple! Nowadays it's just a panty shot or a fully clothed cleavage shot.

As an aside, I have to say that ADV's DVDs probably had the best DVD authoring of the major anime companies. Healthy bitrates, and they usually try their hardest to get good masters. Yohko looks surprisingly good for an older anime released on DVD in 2002. Funimation's cheapo tendency to jam 7 or 8 episodes into one DVD has always hurt the quality of their DVDs (and even the ones with good bitrates have problems). Animeigo's anime DVDs in general were not great, often looking like they were direct transfers of VHS source material (Dagger of Kamui was especially horrible, looking even worse than the original VHS!!). CPM was up and down, and truth be told a lot of their DVDs look more like really good VHS tapes. Bandai was probably the only other anime company that made the best use of anime on DVD. Manga Entertainment never got around to figuring out the demand for anamorphic widescreen.

I know ADV doesn't have a good reputation on this board, but I will say this: they've always been pretty on the ball when it comes to making proper use of new formats. You can see this with Sentai Filmworks now too--their anime blu-rays are more often than not superior to Funimation and NISA's BDs in quality.

Well, my biggest gripe with ADV was that they would screw with the opening and ending credits, removing the Japanese text with English names of the English voice actors. What's worse is that they would replace entire frames of animation just to place English text instead. They did this in many anime, from Sakura Wars to especially Evangelion and Nadesico, puking English text all over the animation, obscuring what was meant to be shown. Other anime companies, whether it's CPM, Nozomi, AnimEigo or Discotek, have not do this. I have ADV to thank for bringing over so many great titles, but I always wished that another company had handled the release. I haven't seen the Nadesico re-release by Nozomi I bought last summer on a whim, but after seeing their handling of the Dirty Pair, I have faith that they did the right thing.

I can't say I've seen the Kamui DVD, but I thought that AnimEigo's Macross DVDs were exceptional. Their handling of Yawara was done well, IIRC, and I recently watched their Urusei Yatsura vol 1 DVD and was pleased with its quality. Their BGC remasters were great, too (although I must admit that it's been many years since I've watched them).

I'd like to see Mamono Hunter Yohko again sometime. I own it on DVD and I never saw it to the end. Gosh, I have a pile of stuff I want to see.

Anyhow, I inadvertently consumed a bit too much vodka and whiskey tonight, so I apologize in advance if this message was a bit awkward to read. Perhaps I couldn't find the right words or something. I shouldn't post while drunk...

llj, I noticed the same changes in animation style when I watched Devil Hunter Yoko. I remember the first couple episodes looking kind of rough in some parts, but overall I liked those first episodes. However, the middle episodes looked absolutely beautiful, in my opinion, and were drawn in a style like this:

http://static.zerochan.net/Devil.Hunter ... l.3828.jpg

The last couple of episodes really disappointed me, with a style more like this:

http://i2.listal.com/image/2093568/936f ... -cover.jpg

I think my favorite thing from Devil Hunter Yoko is the video for Full Moon Light. I LOVE that song!

greg wrote:Well, my biggest gripe with ADV was that they would screw with the opening and ending credits, removing the Japanese text with English names of the English voice actors. What's worse is that they would replace entire frames of animation just to place English text instead. They did this in many anime, from Sakura Wars to especially Evangelion and Nadesico, puking English text all over the animation, obscuring what was meant to be shown. Other anime companies, whether it's CPM, Nozomi, AnimEigo or Discotek, have not do this. I have ADV to thank for bringing over so many great titles, but I always wished that another company had handled the release. I haven't seen the Nadesico re-release by Nozomi I bought last summer on a whim, but after seeing their handling of the Dirty Pair, I have faith that they did the right thing.

Funimation does those things as well. I think with the other companies it's less an issue of conscience and more an issue of budget. I find that the bigger companies tend to try to cater to a more general market.

Sentai Filmworks is basically the leftover members of ADV, but they don't screw with OP and ED credits like at ADV. Again, I think it's more an issue of budget.

As for Animeigo's Macross, I recall it suffering from excessive DNR at times, and some of the linework got smudged. The ADV remaster emphasized the line clarity more as I recall.

Speaking of excessive DNR, Toei's recent remasters of the Galaxy Express 999 movies are an example of bad DNR. All the grain is scrubbed out and made to look like it was animated digitally and unfortunately, some of the original linework has been badly compromised. This isn't Discotek's fault because they simply release what's given to them, but excessive DNR is still a serious problem in general in modern film restoration.

danth wrote:
The last couple of episodes really disappointed me, with a style more like this:

http://i2.listal.com/image/2093568/936f ... -cover.jpg

Yes, the final episode was fairly typical of mid-90s character designs, with skinnier bodies and receding chins. It does, however, sport the smoothest animation in the series. Interestingly, this final episode was directed by a young Akiyuki Shinbo, who's a very productive director today (Madoka Magica, Negima, Nanoha and the Monogatari series of anime...). I personally think he's more a talented craftsman rather than an "auteur", but today's fans seem to love him.

My favourite Yohko episodes were episodes 1 and 5, and I have some respect for 6 for the animation quality. I felt 2 and 3 were a little on the tame side and trying to jump on the Sailor Moon bandwagon. 5 and 6 brought some of the comedy-horror/gore back that defined episode 1. Episode "4" is the music video.

danth wrote:llj, I noticed the same changes in animation style when I watched Devil Hunter Yoko. I remember the first couple episodes looking kind of rough in some parts, but overall I liked those first episodes. However, the middle episodes looked absolutely beautiful, in my opinion, and were drawn in a style like this:

http://static.zerochan.net/Devil.Hunter ... l.3828.jpg

The last couple of episodes really disappointed me, with a style more like this:

http://i2.listal.com/image/2093568/936f ... -cover.jpg

The first link doesn't work, but I checked the site for their Yohko pictures. I didn't even really need to look though, since I am very familiar with the character designs. Since I have not seen the latter episodes of the show, I am very disappointed that they ended up looking like the second image you provided. That's what I call (in my ignorance) "Pioneer crap." Everything about it I just don't like. The full face is gone, the eyes look pointy and retarded, and her already thin body is now too skinny. Frankly, It looks like Tenchi Muyo stuff, but even then I wouldn't even say that Tenchi looks that bad. I just do not care for that style of art at all. Many of these shows from the '90s were fun to watch, but visually I did not care for them.

llj wrote:As for Animeigo's Macross, I recall it suffering from excessive DNR at times, and some of the linework got smudged. The ADV remaster emphasized the line clarity more as I recall.

Well, I thought it looked gorgeous. I made a point to get the AnimEigo version rather than the ADV version because 1. I have such a nostalgic love for AnimEigo,
2. I can care less about an English dub and would rather not even have that on my discs (although Mari Iijima reprising her role as Minmay would be interesting to hear just once, at least), and
3. I didn't know if ADV was going to screw up the Japanese text in the opening and closing credits.

I watched these twice through and I didn't see anything wrong with them, since they were a vast improvement over the original. Even still, I don't mind watching old anime that hasn't been remastered anyway. I had to look up what DNR and linework meant after reading your message. I really could not tell that kind of stuff when I watched it. I have an A/V friend who really knows about that sort of stuff though, like he can tell the difference between a song recorded via ATRAC compression on a MiniDisc versus a typical .MP3 file. I seriously cannot, even though I do know that the MD is superior to an iPod.

DNR tends to rub out fine details in linework when it comes to animation. In live action films, it rubs out detail and creates a waxy look. Sure, it makes the image look "bright" and "clean" which can look gorgeous to modern eyes...but it's a little like taking an old painting by Rembrandt, and then taking a wet cloth and rubbing away the dirt marks to "clean it up". You can imagine what happens when you do this.






Check out the pattern of her jacket, much of that is lost in the cleaned up version.

DNR has its uses when it comes to fixing highly damaged film images, but when it's applied excessively--like in the case of grain elimination--the results compromise what the original image is supposed to look like.

In Galaxy Express 999, much of the detail has been lost. You get the main outlines, but little wrinkles and scuff marks here and there in certain scenes tend to get lost. It should look a little grainy because it was originally on film. Instead, the remaster makes it look like digimation.

I think we have some confusion here on Animeigo's Macross. BOTH ADV and Animeigo's Macross DVDs were remastered. IIRC, both companies remastered the show themselves. It's just that Animeigo did a worse job with it because they were less elegant in their use of DNR. What's worse is DNR and then putting fake grain on top of it, which is missing the point. Throwing fake grain on top of an overscrubbed remaster won't bring the details back.

I know it sounds like I'm bitching over a trivial thing, but really, it isn't. The problem is too many people want a "clean" look and don't understand how stuff on old film should look--and many restoration companies continue putting out shoddy remasters. To be honest, in the Blu Ray era, a lot of films probably wouldn't need much remastering at all because the clarity of 1080p would win people over and they wouldn't mind the grain. Take a look at the Last Unicorn on BD, that's how an old animated film should look. Ironically, it's only good because it's not a film that anyone deems important enough to remaster.

I definitely preffered the look of the older DHY to the newer style. As stills, I thought they looked cute though.

I just bought Detatoko Princess on DVD, I love Hitoshi Okuda's work on the Tenchi manga, when I saw that Detatoko was his creation, I had to pick up this little DVD just for that. Never heard of it either. Also rewatching Blue Seed, to show my friends. So far they are loving it, and they see alot of influence from it in my artwork apparently. XD;

ryoran wrote:I just bought Detatoko Princess on DVD, I love Hitoshi Okuda's work on the Tenchi manga, when I saw that Detatoko was his creation, I had to pick up this little DVD just for that.

"Love is a magic, it's a beautiful magic." I always giggled at that. I thought it was a cute show though; totally watchable.

One of my hobbies is digitizing old stuff on tape, so I know about DNR... I stay away from the stuff completely. I especially despise temporal smoothing. Whenever I save anything important, I save it totally untouched, in huffyuv/pcm format (an episode tends to be something like 10 GB in size).

Yeah, I'm actually okay with stuff looking grainy, and with tinny audio. The Dairugger and GoLion DVD transfers that MediaWorks (or whatever their name is) put out is pretty rough by today's standards, both audibly and visually. I think it just adds to the retro feel to it, so I enjoy that sort of thing.