Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the economy

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gaijinpunch
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by gaijinpunch »

Certainly there didn't seem to be any shortage of babies and kids in Tokyo the last time I was there.
On the micro level no, but ironically it will be the nail in the coffin unless they figure something out. By figure something out, I mean pull their heads out of their asses and get people to immigrate in. The data can easily be extrapolated from the birthrate and the death rate. "Why" is a totally different beast, but it's not hard to hard to come up w/ some workable theories. This article was rather tame, and honestly doesn't really state anything new. There have been more than a few Japan-based polls on what the pulse of the nation. The gist is that tons of people are flat out unhappy.

It's not like the whole country has become sterile. You still see young guys trying to mount girls, and vice versa to an extent. The difference is you can look around and see people in their 30's that are most likely going to go home alone on a Saturday night after some festive karaoke. The fact that women are damaged goods at the ripe old age of 30 does not help. The whole idea of the cougar here is a lost cause.

If you really want a dark look at it, and what I find to be a rather valid take on it, look for Vice's special on Japan. It's on Youtube, but is likely not safe for work, due to subject matter. If you want the real one, go to their website. It has a slightly different ending. ;)
Ai is an extremely common name in Japan for women. It's not like the ridiculous names that strippers come up with, which are not far off from the nicknames redneck moms give their beauty pagent toddlers.
There's a good chance it's her stage name for a reason though.
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by yusaku »

Gaijinpunch I believe that low expectations are at he root of the problem. People are just as "horny" as ever, but the man must believe that he will get the woman he desires to marry. Otherwise, the man does not try. We have a problem of the men "giving up" the marriage hunt because of personal failure, government policy, corporate policy, and feminist pop culture.

Personal failure occurs due to bad luck, lack of planning, and not being able to compete with the pool of men seeking the same women. Bad luck is things like getting a debilitating illness, making some bad business investments, having to care for family with a serious illness, or getting seriously injured at work. Poor planning usually results from not planning for emergencies or situations that are likely to happen. The social "safety net" for men is fairly thin for men anywhere in the world if it exists at all. The inability to manage cash, credit, health, and social resources can leave a man unemployed, sick, and or socially isolated. The competition from other men makes things extremely difficult for most men. Japan has a 99% literacy rate and the competition for colleges and jobs is extremely tough. A lot of competent guys get pushed out of the dating pool because the shear numbers of men looking for reproductive age women. There are more thirty-something and forty-something year olds looking for twenty to thirty year old women than you think. Unless a young man can get a steady job and have or obtain the right social connections, it will be difficult to deal with the competition from older wealthier males.

Government and corporate policies have lowered the resource pool available to men for building relationships with women. The government in most cases have SUBSIDIZED the corporate outsourcing of labor. In addition, corporations have held wages stagnate as productivity of workers increased. The increase in part-time temporary positions is largely due to corporate policy to eliminate overtime pay and increase worker disposability. Ever been a temp before? I remember my life as a temporary worker; and being a temp really DESTROYS your attitude towards work. I had to stop temping because I was becoming so cynical, apathetic, and angry because of the poor treatment I was getting from foremen when I was on assignment. It is very difficult to build a life for yourself on temporary part-time work. Most women will not like moving into the family home should mother allow it.

Feminist pop culture has made leisure and career building a priority for women above marriage and family. Women now work many of the service industry and government jobs. These women often make as much or more than their male counter parts in the same industry. It is no secret women look down on men that make the same or less than them. Men making more money in the area of production are getting fewer because of surplus production in countries where labor is cheaper; this makes the pool of men with acceptable resources to women much smaller. The taboo of female sexual promiscuity and divorce has been removed from society. The advent of "no fault" divorce laws and birth control technology has made sexual liberation and resource transfer from men to women feasible, probable, profitable, and commonplace. The divorce rate in the U.S is 75% divorcing after 10 years of being married. Now this is bad news to any man thinking of marriage. Women's new freedoms make delaying marriage desirable to women as well. Many women in industrialized countries are delaying marriage until they can find that rare alpa male, get tired of working, or decide to have children. The problem with women delaying marriage is aging has a negative effect on both the health and fertility of both sexes. This delay to marriage adds to the low birth rate problem.

Just for fun listen to poet Acie Cargill put the situation into perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6hzVi3kH20

The reason I have so much to say on this topic is because of what I am seeing happening in the United States. I am seeing mem in their twenties not even dating. My neighbor is a young, thin, and good looking man. All he does is play video games, play with his doe, and smoke weed when he isn't working. He does not work often either. What we are seeing in Japan has been happening in industrialized Asia and Europe for years; now it is spreading to America.
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by _D_ »

Wow! Very interesting essay. Will check out Vice's site. Did you watch the documentary on General Butt Naked from Vice? He's got a branch of his ministry in the US now. Gotta be much more lucrative than Liberia...
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by greg »

yusaku wrote:My neighbor is a young, thin, and good looking man. All he does is play video games, play with his doe, and smoke weed when he isn't working. He does not work often either.
This guy has a pet deer? Smoking pot really isn't good for motivation to do anything really, except close the curtains and eat junk food and forget stuff. I'm not surprised someone like him doesn't date. He's a slacker, and hopefully not a good example of someone in their 20s. (I am probably wrong, though. America's gone down the crapper.)

Regarding what you said about temp work, that really rings true for me. My parents came of age in the 60s, and they believed that having a college diploma guaranteed getting a job. When I moved back from Japan in '02, I had a very hard time finding a job anywhere. For nearly ten years, I was working nothing but contract jobs. I started out doing temp work to get some sort of money at first, and it only led to contract work. 18 months was the longest I could work anywhere due to contract time limits. My parents kept telling me to be patient and someday a company would hire me on full-time, but after nearly 10 years, I gave up. People would look at my resume and just assume I preferred contract work, but I hated it. It was the only way I could work, and I couldn't break the cycle. I would make decent money for a while, then followed by unemployment. Sometimes it was only a few weeks, but the longest was 9 months. So I moved to Japan where I could work the same job year after year.

All this outsourcing is evil. Not only to countries like India, but within America too with all the contract work. More broken campaign promises. I'd say more, but I'd rather not get into a political argument.
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gaijinpunch
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by gaijinpunch »

Gaijinpunch I believe that low expectations are at he root of the problem. People are just as "horny" as ever, but the man must believe that he will get the woman he desires to marry.
Agreed: I don't think libido is the problem. I think it's everything that comes along w/ getting laid that is the main turn off. And while you can go down the street and pay for a piece of ass legally, in the long run it is far cheaper (and I would say probably better quality than the average guy could get in a bar), why would you want to go through the disaster of a relationship?

While I agree with a lot of what you said, there's a few points. I think the underlying problem here is money. You mentioned women making as much or more than their male counterparts. There are some, but they are few. Very few. You can't be 105th in gender equality and have a strong corporate ladder for women. Again, some exist, and Japan is very pro-small business where women like this can shine. But it is still decades behind the US, and for those that choose that route, they are giving up the home life. There is almost nothing in place for a mom to do anything other than part time work. Japanese full time employment entails brutally long hours (with service overtime). Why would anyone hire a mom who had to go pick up the kids from day care at 5PM? It is difficult, but there are career mothers in the US.

The main reason I think money is the root cause here, is b/c it's the one thing the government has tried to do to get people to breed. Child birth is free, and you may even make a few bucks. There a stipends for people with young kids, depending on your salary. Day care is very cheap assuming both parents work. These are all incentives to offset the ridiculous cost of having a child: ridiculous rent cost for another room; pre-school, kindergarten + juku, elementary school + juku, middle school + juku, high school + juku. If your kid goes to the wrong kindergarten he's effed for life to an extent. This is getting into the social responsibilities of being a parent, which are a whole other can of worms worth talking about, but I won't get into it here.
There are more thirty-something and forty-something year olds looking for twenty to thirty year old women than you think.
Perhaps, but it's still too small of a number. Looking for 30 year olds I can buy... but it's not soon after that they are thrown to the curb. I've had tons of friends in this demographic in my 15 years here, and even way more acquaintances in the work place. There was an old saying that women were like Christmas Cake. Nobody was interested in them after the 25th. (Ouch!)
The reason I have so much to say on this topic is because of what I am seeing happening in the United States. I am seeing mem in their twenties not even dating. My neighbor is a young, thin, and good looking man.
Indeed -- however, America has the immigration flood gates open, so it has a very nice buffer. They don't have to make babies. Japan's immigration gates are barely cracked open... and for people that want to immigrate in, they have the same hurdles as Japanese, plus institutionalized racism to deal with. This paints a dark picture for Japan's future.
Smoking pot really isn't good for motivation to do anything really, except close the curtains and eat junk food and forget stuff. I'm not surprised someone like him doesn't date. He's a slacker, and hopefully not a good example of someone in their 20s. (I am probably wrong, though. America's gone down the crapper.)
Let's not jump the gun now. Marijuana stimulates creativity... something Japan has slowly been losing for a long time. I'll spare the argument, but note that my opinion is that the aging population has a huge effect on this. Do you enjoy any Apple products at all? Well, you can chalk that up to LSD. The only thing that makes him a slacker is him sitting on his sofa and playing games all day. The games are most likely more to blame than any of it, but ultimately it's his decision. Go to California. Half of the state is fully functional pot heads, and when I say full functional, I mean like executives at Fortune 500 companies. Not burger flippers.

Finally...
Temp work
Yes, I've temped in Japan. It is brutal but at least if you work in finance and some technical sectors you can expect a substantially higher pay, and it's not unheard of to get an hourly salary. Some will put you on a monthly salary, and w/ the declining economy I can't imagine it getting any easier for contract employees, but I do know of some people that have such a set up, and they actually get some good dough. Sucks when they go on vacation though!
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by yusaku »

Thanks for the responses! I think we are close to the same opinion. Hopefully, we can change a few things to make getting together easier.We need to support our labor unions while they are still here. Maybe we can force the government to stop subsidizing corporations that outsource our labor. Divorce is illegal in the Philippines, but I am not that desperate. Just some of my ideas.

Greg I meant to type "dog" instead of "doe". I just missed it in the spell check.

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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by greg »

gaijinpunch wrote:Let's not jump the gun now. Marijuana stimulates creativity... something Japan has slowly been losing for a long time. I'll spare the argument, but note that my opinion is that the aging population has a huge effect on this. Do you enjoy any Apple products at all?
Actually, I don't care for Apple products and have never owned one. The last Apple product I really enjoyed was the Apple II GS! :) But I know what you mean about the creativity.

I think Yusaku was talking about the US, but didn't clarify that when he shifted. I do that a lot myself when I talk, and it drives my wife mad. My dad always did that, and now I shift topics without a preface and I'm becoming like him. Scary.
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by davemerrill »

I can't speak for anybody but myself and Shain, but both of us are very happy we've been able to be married and live our lives without the societal expectation that we'd be popping out babies all the time. Or ever. It's only been a few decades here in the West that we've been able to live like that, and it's been an even shorter amount of time in Japan that women had anything approaching the same rights as men. By golly, if they don't want to get married, let 'em not get married! They've been chattel long enough.
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by gaijinpunch »

davemerrill wrote:By golly, if they don't want to get married, let 'em not get married! They've been chattel long enough.
Most people don't have a problem with that (I am one of them). They are, however, not offsetting the damage it does.

-The population is aging (bad for innovation [IMHO] and keeping up w/ the international community [also IMHO] )
-Tokyo's population stays more or less the same while the country side becomes empty. This is terrible for those locations...especially as the people living there get old.
-Nobody is actively bringing in foreigners* to do a lot of the jobs that need to be done... the most noticeable is care for the elderly. The 2nd most notable one is anything that generates tax revenue. Not sure if people have picked up on it but the Japanese foreign banking community has not recovered from 2008 (and likely won't for many, many more years to come). Why is beyond the scope of this message, but that is one area that's dire. It's a lot of taxes that are now going into Hong Kong and Singapore, and it crushes the high end housing market here in Tokyo.

*Quite the opposite, really. Check this out to see what the morons running this country are capable of.
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Re: Article: Japan's sexual apathy is endangering the econom

Post by davemerrill »

I agree that an aging population is going to present a giant whack of serious problems, and that Japan is going to have to take a hard look at its immigration policies and see if they can't make some changes. On the other hand, if any country can handle tough challenges, it's Japan.

I dunno if this has any bearing on the discussion, but one thing I did notice in Tokyo was OVER-employment. Shops had two and three clerks when one was necessary, that kind of thing. I didn't see (sadly enough) greeters in the department stores or girls hired simply to buff the handrails of the escalators, so maybe this kind of 1980s-style feather-bedding is on its way out.

Not that I'm complaining- one of the treats of visiting Japan is the amazing level of service you get in every kind of business. But if there's a lack of young people for the important jobs, maybe it's because they are wrapping packages next to the cashier or being the second assistant coffee-warmer-upper at Mr. Donut.

Give Japan time, in 15 years we'll be back to where we were before they blew out their bubble economy and everybody will be quoting terrible Michael Crichton novels about the dangers of Japan buying everything in the world.

That is actually one thing that irritates me about this line of thinking, that Japan's economy is in trouble because Japanese 20-somethings aren't having babies. The Japanese economy has been coughing up blood for two decades now, before the people they're blaming were even born themselves. They managed to screw things up quite nicely without any help from millenials or whatever they're calling the current generation of young people.
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