Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

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usamimi
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by usamimi »

Mexico is different, yeah--I was tempted to buy the Mexican release because you could find it online for like $30 a box when it came out, but then I found out it was a different region. XD Booooo.

At least they said they'd stop the forced pillarboxing on the DVDs. But still, ugh, what a mess.
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by greg »

Pure crap. Nobody would have to worry about reverse importing DVDs if they would just stop pricing them so high here.
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by usamimi »

greg wrote:Pure crap. Nobody would have to worry about reverse importing DVDs if they would just stop pricing them so high here.
I think it's the blu-rays they'd be worried about, since they're the same region, but yeah...I definitely agree. They're so pricy in Japan, it's kind of nuts.
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by SteveH »

greg wrote:Pure crap. Nobody would have to worry about reverse importing DVDs if they would just stop pricing them so high here.
I've seen people claim it's because of the rental store market, but they never break down the costs.

I'm convinced it's all due to what appears to American eyes a very complex, tradition ridden and archaic retail distribution system.

Here's my math, check me.

1. Many products in Japan have their retail price printed on the product. There seems to actually be protective laws in place that prevent some categories from any deep discounting. I Have seen with my own eyes some department stores marking toys and model kits down by some minimal amount, like 10%. This was before the national sales tax was imposed.

So, then, a book marked at 1000 Yen is 1000 Yen. Everywhere.

Japan, unlike America today, still uses middlemen, brokers and jobbers that add layers between retailer and manufacturer. I have been told that there's generally 4 levels before an item gets to the store. Each middleman naturally gets a cut. How much of a cut is a mystery that I've never seen anyone investigate.

Math. If a book sells for 1000 Yen, the retailer MUST get it at some kind of discount in order to profit. A store MUST make a profit in order to stay in business. In America, back when we HAD bookstores, it was common for the publisher to sell direct at 40% off the cover price. If the store used a jobber like Ingram or Baker & Taylor the discount would generally be tighter, 35% off the retail price, sometimes with a 'push' incentive for fast (net 30 days) payment. So if that 1000 Yen book was a $10 book in a U.S. bookstore, they paid $6. The publisher makes money, the book store makes money. Note that makes it either direct from manufacturer or one level of jobber.

(we're not going into the complex issue of 'strip for return credit' and 'whole copy return' and all that, unless we need to later. :) )

Now, while I don't know the specifics of the Japanese retail distro system, if it DOES have generally 4 layers between maker and seller, and they all down the line are making money off the item it seems to me that means items are roughly double the price they could be. That 1000 Yen book is likely 500 Yen out the door of the publisher.

(I will note that Hobbylink Japan, which is both a distributor and a mail order retailer, even THEY don't get any stock direct from Bandai and others, they have to rely on jobbers to provide stock. At least from various comments this seems to be true)

And yes it's frightening just how CHEAP the weekly manga 'phonebooks' have to be and why it's a darn good thing they sell in the millions...

I really wish someone could do a deep investigation of Japanese retail. It would have to be a native Japanese I think because ANY gaijin asking a store who they get stuff from would probably get the 'great stone face' in return.

whew. that's alot. :)
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by davemerrill »

Japanese home video pricing has a fee built-in to reimburse the producers for piracy. It's what they tried to do in North America, but we said nuts to that.

Also: Saihan system: http://nippop.com/features/Saihan_Seido ... ce_System/

I don't know that Japan has a tiered system of retail the way we have in the States, where a product is priced at one level in Macy's and at another level in Target and at yet another level in Wal-Mart. How do prices for an item at Amazon.jp compare to prices on the same item in, say, Bic Camera or Kinokuniya?
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by SteveH »

davemerrill wrote:Japanese home video pricing has a fee built-in to reimburse the producers for piracy. It's what they tried to do in North America, but we said nuts to that.

Also: Saihan system: http://nippop.com/features/Saihan_Seido ... ce_System/

I don't know that Japan has a tiered system of retail the way we have in the States, where a product is priced at one level in Macy's and at another level in Target and at yet another level in Wal-Mart. How do prices for an item at Amazon.jp compare to prices on the same item in, say, Bic Camera or Kinokuniya?
Having never been to Japan, I can only go by what I see, such as store price stickers. From this I deduce that the only time there's deep discounting is when a product line is 'dead', so for example you can generally find last year's Super Sentai series toys pretty cheap, at least the least popular ones. (the good stuff sells out quick!) Then they vanish and become collectables. :)

I can tell looking at Amazon JP, Hobbylink Japan, CD Japan and Hobby Search, a 1000 Yen book is 1000 Yen. The variation I see is all based on if they use the 'tax in' price or the 'tax out' for overseas sale.

I have yet to pull the trigger on anything at Amazon JP. I don't know if they chuck in a post-transaction discount for 'tax out' or not.

And that 'piracy fee' is still in place, Dave, only here they slapped it on blank recording media.
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by llj »

While I wouldn't past Toei to give them crap masters, it does seem like that's only 50% of the problem. There are already some sites comparing them to the old JP DVDs from 2009, and the fact is there are numerous more problems with the video in this release compared to the 2009 jp DVDs--so it can't all be from the masters but the visual transfers/cleanup themselves, which would be on Viz. The fact that they're trying to pass it off as seemingly nothing is wrong and that any problems people have with the video quality should blame Toei (essentially throwing Toei under the bus) is pretty low game for Viz IMO.

I find it ironic that Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon, two of the biggest and most popular franchises worldwide, have had some of the shittiest releases in America. But at least DBZ fans in America have the Dragon Box set which IS a "definitive" edition of sorts, even if it's only DVD.

Sometimes being popular ain't a good thing. Companies know that they can crap out a bad product and it will still sell. The other problem is too many cooks in the kitchen. With popular franchises, everyone involved wants to put in their two cents and you end up with a watered down product.
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by usamimi »

*nods* Even if Toei gave them shittier "masters" than their 2009 DVD release to work with, it still doesn't explain the ghosting problems, because the Hulu stream has no ghosting problems that I remember. If the blu-rays looked exactly like he Hulu streams, I'd be perfectly happy. I think whoever they have authoring their discs fucked up in /some/ way...I dunno HOW they got the picture they did, but man, I really hope they get their act together for the next set.

It's a shame they're not being more honest and just sticking with "it is what it is". I know there's plenty of older Sailor Moon fans who dropped outta watching anime who're picking up the sets now, and many seem happy enough because they probably just chalk it up to being "old", but people like us who know about things like this and care about picture quality? Yeah, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to buy that set. Like I said, I really hope this is a wake-up call for them--I doubt the second set is gonna sell out as quickly as the first one did because of all of this.
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by Animusubi »

Pretty disheartening to hear, I guess I won't be picking up this just yet, but it wasn't a high priority for me either. At least I can watch it on Hulu, haha.

I guess there's an interview with Viz about it, didn't listen to it though. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast ... -13/.81009
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Re: Sailor Moon to be licensed by Viz Media

Post by usamimi »

ryoran wrote:Pretty disheartening to hear, I guess I won't be picking up this just yet, but it wasn't a high priority for me either. At least I can watch it on Hulu, haha.

I guess there's an interview with Viz about it, didn't listen to it though. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast ... -13/.81009
Yup, SteveH & I were talking about that on page 2, that's what lead to this discussion. ;)
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