The Old School Otaku Lounge

Gosh, I have been so busy for the past month or two that I haven't been participating on this forum much. But now that the weather is getting warmer, I feel my nerd instincts powering up. I guess I was conditioned this way since I was a kid in school. The long summer months meant that I did not have to do homework, and that I could read any SF book I felt like. I could stay up past 9pm to watch Star Trek every night on syndicated television on the local UHF channel (normally I could only do this on Friday nights). I could play video games and watch movies. In my latter years in college, summer was also when I could stay at my friends' place in San Diego for a couple of weeks, and during this time we could visit the San Diego Comic Con together (back in the late '90s, before it got obnoxiously crowded).

The summer is when I watched a lot of anime and read a lot of manga, too. I would frequent my local comic book store in Glendale, AZ called Stalking Moon. They rented anime VHS there. There I would rent quite a lot of anime, until the tendency turned towards everything dubbed in English. I would also watch a lot of the fansubs I'd accrued, too.

So today I had a class with a special needs class, which was mostly just chit-chat in Japanese. They asked me what anime I liked, and I started naming off Yamato, Gundam, Macross, Future Boy Conan, KOR, 999, Rose of Versailles, etc. So they started asking me if I knew of stuff like Touch, City Hunter, Ruroni Kenshin, etc. Yes, yes, yes! It really makes me want to watch anime more often. I started thinking about how I've been meaning to start up Macross, Votoms, and several other shows for quite a while.

So although I do watch anime throughout the year, I think that I have been conditioned to be a seasonal anime consumer, of sorts.

My anime watching is mostly sporadic with occasional bursts about once every 5 years where I watch a whole bunch of anime at once. It's a cyclical thing for me. I know that whenever I lose interest in anime for awhile, I'll get a hankering for it again sometime down the line if I take a break. I don't force myself to watch anime when I don't want to, so I prevent myself from permanently burning out. I see it all the time with younger fans. They watch EVERY new show that airs--regardless of genre or their own personal tastes--and then burn out after 5 straight years of nonstop anime watching. There was a guy I knew who basically became an expert of every anime that came out between 2000-2005...and then he just burned out on anime. He could name every seiyuu and every director for almost every anime that came out during that 5 year period. A regular Encyclopedia Brown when it comes to early 2000s anime. Nowadays he can barely name a single show that came out in the last 14 years. And his knowledge of pre 2000s anime is still very poor. He just OD'ed on a single historical period of anime and then burned himself out on the hobby.

So I think it's good to take breaks and have a number of hobbies and interests to cycle through. It keeps your love of those hobbies fresh when you go away from them sometimes and then come back all jazzed up after a period away from them.

greg wrote: I guess I was conditioned this way since I was a kid in school.

I get what you mean - I have a couple of conditioned responses, too; mostly the first week or so of spring when the weather really makes that change from rainy winter to breezy and warm. While I like being outside during this time, it makes me nostalgic for spring break in my teens. For some reason, spring break around my 15th birthday sticks out - my folks offered to pay for my PlayStation to get modded as a birthday present, so we took it in and spent other birthday money on some used games and anime. I just remember spending the week in my room, windows opened for that cool, gentle breeze and watching cartoons and playing Dragon Warrior. Whenever this time of year rolls around, I have the urge to throw open the windows and kick back and watch some anime. Happens again when the summer breaks and we're starting to get fall weather, too.

While not always weather dependent, I get the urge to play video games every so often. Probably because I was never huge into gaming, even at my highest point, and I was really big into anime before I was seriously into gaming, so when I had to make a financial decision to cut one out, it was easy for me to drop gaming.

llj wrote:I see it all the time with younger fans. They watch EVERY new show that airs--regardless of genre or their own personal tastes--and then burn out after 5 straight years of nonstop anime watching. There was a guy I knew who basically became an expert of every anime that came out between 2000-2005...and then he just burned out on anime.

I've seen that with people I knew probably ten years ago or so and even some newer fans, too. I don't know if it is unique to anime fandom or if other fandoms go through it, too. There are some good traits about that - getting out of your comfort zone and trying something new particularly - but also I don't think I'd be as knowledgeable about a lot of anime-related things had I not gone on binges when I could in my teens, either. With a lot of the folks I knew, they burned out like that in their early 20s when they had no jobs, light class-loads and no real other motivator to stop watching anime. While I binged in my teens, I had the eventual return to full-time school, part time jobs and getting ready for university. If my twenties were like theirs, then I would have most likely ended up like them.

llj wrote:So I think it's good to take breaks and have a number of hobbies and interests to cycle through. It keeps your love of those hobbies fresh when you go away from them sometimes and then come back all jazzed up after a period away from them.

This is something I always try to impart on other people, too. Though I couple it with making those interests diverse, too. If you like a couple of geeky (for lack of a better word, I suppose) things, it doesn't mean that you HAVE to like every "geeky" thing. Likewise, even though you're a geek doesn't preclude you from liking sports. And visa verse - sports fans can get into geeky stuff, too.

I kinda go in spurts, too. While I do always have stuff I love on my mind in varying degrees, I don't always sit down and watch/read/play/whatever stuff all the time...I don't want to get burnt out on a single thing, naturally. Of course, sometimes this leads to me leaving something only half-finished for long stretches of time.

I can totally understand the summer time activating these feelings, though--Summer time is usually when I'd get to go to the library more as a kid, so I associate summer with more reading and watching things (since we could rent tapes from the library, too!).

Drew_Sutton wrote:[

This is something I always try to impart on other people, too. Though I couple it with making those interests diverse, too. If you like a couple of geeky (for lack of a better word, I suppose) things, it doesn't mean that you HAVE to like every "geeky" thing. Likewise, even though you're a geek doesn't preclude you from liking sports. And visa verse - sports fans can get into geeky stuff, too.

A lot of geeks hate sports because it stems from their childhood of being poor at sports or being picked on by more sporty kids.

At one time I had that kind of attitude, but I grew to appreciate sports very soon after I got out of high school. And I like watching sports because I like watching people excel at doing things I *can't* do. And a great athlete is in some ways just as much of an artist as a great painter, if you think about sports from an artistic standpoint.

Today, nerd culture pretty much rules the pop entertainment--the most popular movies, TV shows, and books today are often very much what would be categorized as "nerd" entertainment. So I think the mainstream has fully embraced nerd culture to a large extent. It's more likely for a jock to be into something nerdy today than the other way around, I find.

llj wrote:Today, nerd culture pretty much rules the pop entertainment--the most popular movies, TV shows, and books today are often very much what would be categorized as "nerd" entertainment. So I think the mainstream has fully embraced nerd culture to a large extent. It's more likely for a jock to be into something nerdy today than the other way around, I find.

I TOTALLY agree with this. I honestly think that nerd culture, by and large, is now very much mainstream. I mean, you can buy graphic novels at WALMART now. When I was a kid, that was unheard of. You were lucky to find a grocery store that had monthly superhero comics on their magazine rack.

usamimi wrote:I kinda go in spurts, too. While I do always have stuff I love on my mind in varying degrees, I don't always sit down and watch/read/play/whatever stuff all the time...I don't want to get burnt out on a single thing, naturally. Of course, sometimes this leads to me leaving something only half-finished for long stretches of time.

I can totally understand the summer time activating these feelings, though--Summer time is usually when I'd get to go to the library more as a kid, so I associate summer with more reading and watching things (since we could rent tapes from the library, too!).

I kind of go in spurts, myself. I have so many interests. I just got done memorizing a cello piece "gymnopedie" for a wedding I am playing next week. I was looking to learn piano, but I found an excellent cello instructor that lived near me. So, I will eventually get back to learning piano. So many interests so little time! Yet, I buy anime all the time. I have Suzuka, the SAVE collection, I got last year, and it is still in the shrink wrap. I watched a third of the Wallflower anime SAVE collection, but have not finished in almost a year. Yet, I know I have seen "the Wings of Honneyamaise" at least six times and the first "Ghost in the Shell" several times since I bought Suzuka. There is just something about that older anime I just really never gets old.

One of things I really like about this forum is people are interested in other forms of entertainment also. I just picked up some soundtracks from Star Trek the original series. I know there are a lot of Beavis and Butthead, SouthPark, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Daria fans in here also. Everyone here is so well rounded here.

Now the new group of "nerds' do not seem like the same kind of nerd I am. At least, the newer "nerds" seem different to me. I do not seem to connect with them the way I do with older fans. They seem more "lazy" and in terms of at least intellectual curiosity. Sometimes I think there love for an anime or scifi show is based on narcissism. It seems they are proud they know something most every else doesn't. Too many of the newer nerds seemed to be stuck on a few specific shows. I do not see a lot of well roundedness in the new nerds. Let me explain what I mean.

A lot of my fascination with anime comes from deeper appreciation for what makes art art. What I mean is I like "You've Got Mail" or "Sleepless in Seattle" both of these movies are romantic comedies. So is Maison Ikkoku which I adore. My conversation floats from anime to something different, but then I circle back to anime. Maybe I am just getting old. I see a lot of correlations between things that seemed unrelated before. By the way, I really do love the fact that kids are into Batman, Superman, and Xmen. It is nice to see so many young people at the last Comic Con. Yet, the new group seems a little different to me. Every time I go to one of those things I end up spending time with the older group? What do you guys think?

llj wrote: A lot of geeks hate sports because it stems from their childhood of being poor at sports or being picked on by more sporty kids.

At one time I had that kind of attitude, but I grew to appreciate sports very soon after I got out of high school. And I like watching sports because I like watching people excel at doing things I *can't* do. And a great athlete is in some ways just as much of an artist as a great painter, if you think about sports from an artistic standpoint.

And I can agree with that. I was never athletic and did not have a lot of friends who were really athletic. I got picked on a bit for being the weird kid. I guess though one could say that I grew out of that sort of phase.

And what you said about admiring athletics a similar way you can admire art - that's an excellent way of looking at that! I can totally agree with that!

llj wrote:Today, nerd culture pretty much rules the pop entertainment--the most popular movies, TV shows, and books today are often very much what would be categorized as "nerd" entertainment. So I think the mainstream has fully embraced nerd culture to a large extent. It's more likely for a jock to be into something nerdy today than the other way around, I find.

This is kinda why I was hesitant to use "geeky" to describe some of this. I think there is a bit of a difference with someone who read a lot of comics and got into these tentpole films or someone who went to the books after the films. Not that one is better than the other - just different. I have a nasty habit of absolutely ignoring comic book movies if they weren't a book I read and enjoyed. I am probably the only person moderately familiar with comics to avoid Iron Man, Captain America and Avengers films. Also, echoing a lot of what yusaku said - since there is a lot of this that has become more mainstreamed, it seems like there is a bit of laziness with it. Especially in the viral-fan-art-community. Oh look, Disney Princesses Dressed As Slave Leia! Gag me with a spoon. Or the notion that there is some hivemind in charge of designating something as "nerdy" or "geeky" therefore, I must be into it.

yusaku wrote:Now the new group of "nerds' do not seem like the same kind of nerd I am. At least, the newer "nerds" seem different to me. I do not seem to connect with them the way I do with older fans. [...] By the way, I really do love the fact that kids are into Batman, Superman, and Xmen. It is nice to see so many young people at the last Comic Con. Yet, the new group seems a little different to me. Every time I go to one of those things I end up spending time with the older group? What do you guys think?

.

I can see that. I think in addition to maturity through age, there's an emotional maturity component as well. I find that I tend to fit in best with people about my age ranging from -4 to +10 years. I tend to gravitate more towards people in this group because we have more similar experiences and current-life-priorities.

And I don't want to sound too much more like a grouchy old man - because I agree that new blood in fandom is essential. I don't care that someone gets into comics by watching a summer blockbuster or if they get into anime because of watching an afternoon cartoon block.

Now, we were talking about the weather, weren't we?

llj wrote:Today, nerd culture pretty much rules the pop entertainment--the most popular movies, TV shows, and books today are often very much what would be categorized as "nerd" entertainment. So I think the mainstream has fully embraced nerd culture to a large extent. It's more likely for a jock to be into something nerdy today than the other way around, I find.

yusaku wrote:Now the new group of "nerds' do not seem like the same kind of nerd I am. At least, the newer "nerds" seem different to me. I do not seem to connect with them the way I do with older fans. [...] By the way, I really do love the fact that kids are into Batman, Superman, and Xmen. It is nice to see so many young people at the last Comic Con. Yet, the new group seems a little different to me. Every time I go to one of those things I end up spending time with the older group? What do you guys think?

Summer always reminds me of getting ready to go to Otakon; I was always, and still am, the guy who likes planning stuff, so getting the hotel and car details and snacks and whatnot all together was my job, and I always did that early, in participation of summer - summer, for me, essentially was broken into the ante-Otakon period, and the post-Otakon period.

Regarding differences in fandom (and, again, I would question if what exists today can really be called fandom), this is something I have thought, and written about, a bit myself (largely concerning science fiction and comic fandom), and while I am told I am a bit more pessimistic than I need to be, I do think I have some valid points.

With the growth of "nerd" or "geek" culture (and yes, I hate using those buzzwords), and I think this is visible in the rise in attendance at conventions, an interest in these various mediums is really more of a social activity than any sort of deeply-held affinity on a part of the majority of what are called "fans." It's less "I really like anime and comic books," and more so "this is what I need to like in order to be a nerd, LOL!" And I believe this is evident when talking to a lot of these folks - you will not be able to have a conversation about anything that is not currently in theaters, or is older than a year or two.

I don't believe there should be any sort of discrimination between so-called "real fans" and whatnot, but I do think it's important to acknowledge the difference, the demarcation between someone who likes comics because, well, that's what "geeks" like, and someone who would like to have an intelligent conversation concerning, let's say, the influence of early pulp magazine artists on Jack Kirby and his generation, or the history of Gainax. Anime in particular, I think is no different, in that you have the "social" fans, and the, for lack of a better term, the actual fans - not an examination in quality, but rather interest-level and dedication.

I find it interesting because this conversation is going on in science fiction fandom circles as we speak. I recently helped out with an international fanzine convention, Corflu, that selected Richmond for their event back in May, and a good amount of the conversation, amongst the roughly 70 attendees, regarded the history of fandom (First Fandom, the Futurians, other aspects of fannish history), and if those subjects will be remembered and cared about in future years. Being the early-life curmudgeon that I am, I say no; that the idea of a community comprised of folks with similar interests is a thing of the past, because you're putting one thing before the other - in the past, people with similar interests gathered together to form clubs and the first cons, whereas today the desire to belong to a group (nerd, geek, what have you) is first, and a professed interest in "all things geek" comes second, as a prerequisite to the first, and which will also, inevitably, give way to the next fashionable interest.

I am aware that some of this probably sounds somewhat harsh, and it really isn't mean to be, but I think there is some truth to it. I am absolutely sure that if you go to an anime convention today, you will undoubtedly find someone who is interested in anime past, and the history of the medium, but I think that number is few and far between, when compared with con-goers who are there solely to be a con-goer, if that makes sense.

I do see a lot of fans talk about "powering through their backlog" and binge-watching dozens of episodes in a sitting, through some sort of completist impulse. They make it sound like a chore, which isn't what this should be. We recently powered through Attack On Titan, but I don't think we watched more than 3 episodes in any one evening.

Guyver, I do think that people still seek out social interaction with others who share their interests, but these days we don't have to form clubs or subscribe to fanzines or APAs to interact with other fans. We can do it from home via the internets. I still see things like First Fandom brought up in a historical context. Heck, I was in a discussion last week that drew parallels between the Walter Breen/Marion Zimmer Bradley child molestation scandal of 1964 and the sex-offender DJ that was on staff at Aki-Con last year, and the differing reactions of the different fan communities. There's plenty of institutional memory, I believe.