What's between Old School and New School?

[SteveH]

I should probably clarify things a little. I know I tend to assume everyone knows what I'm talking about and what I mean and that's just not always true.

OK, the Tiers, that's how you came across the anime you became interested in. The delivery of that, in a mass access way, can be seen as a narrowing funnel.

Catalyst Anime is my term for that one show that because your obsession. The show you had to learn more about. The show you made 'destination viewing'. The show that made you start trying to figure out how to get stuff from Japan*.

It can be argued that in our new internet world access is MUCH easier but no, it's actually gotten much more specialized. You have to know ANN exists in order to look for reviews. You have to know Crunchyroll exists, Right Stuf exists, etc. In other words, you have to already be 'in' to get at stuff. The only real 'mass market' access is Cartoon Network Adult Swim (whew!) Toonami, which is a once a week VERY late night deal. I'm sure many DVR the block or their fav shows but that's a HUGE difference from the days when you came home, flipped the dial at 4 PM and caught whatever.

I don't think many fans understand just how important that local TV afternoon kidvid program block was in creating anime fandom.

(*note, this is MUCH LESS a problem now but still takes some skill)

[DKop]

I should probably clarify things a little. I know I tend to assume everyone knows what I'm talking about and what I mean and that's just not always true.

OK, the Tiers, that's how you came across the anime you became interested in. The delivery of that, in a mass access way, can be seen as a narrowing funnel.

Catalyst Anime is my term for that one show that because your obsession. The show you had to learn more about. The show you made 'destination viewing'. The show that made you start trying to figure out how to get stuff from Japan*.

It can be argued that in our new internet world access is MUCH easier but no, it's actually gotten much more specialized. You have to know ANN exists in order to look for reviews. You have to know Crunchyroll exists, Right Stuf exists, etc. In other words, you have to already be 'in' to get at stuff. The only real 'mass market' access is Cartoon Network Adult Swim (whew!) Toonami, which is a once a week VERY late night deal. I'm sure many DVR the block or their fav shows but that's a HUGE difference from the days when you came home, flipped the dial at 4 PM and caught whatever.

I don't think many fans understand just how important that local TV afternoon kidvid program block was in creating anime fandom.

(*note, this is MUCH LESS a problem now but still takes some skill)

I know it's been said on some episodes of Anime World Order and the mouth of Carl Macek, but it remains ever so true: If it wasn't for television, the fandom we know today wouldn't exist.

This example goes back to Speed Racer, which lead to Star Blazers, which lead to Robotech, which lead to Sailor Moon, which lead to Toonami and so on and so forth. I think it would be rather rare to meet someone someone that was an anime fan that didn't have television be that major influence. I agree with Steve that I think many fans don't think much of how much of an impact TV has in their fandom. I'm one of the many examples of coming to fandom through TV, which I kinda look at myself as a first generation Toonami fan without really realizing it.

My Catalyst Anime would be Gundam Wing as that jumping off point, even when I got out of anime for a few months, only to get back into it again with Gundam 08th MS Team. I can either praise or curse Gundam that made me the anime fan I am today, because it had that much of an impact on me, and still does to this day.

[SteveH]

Some of the things Macek had said were right, but not for the reasons he would state. Some of them were so off-base as to make one's brain itch. He had a specific focus and viewpoint.

One of the sayings was "Nobody wants to read a movie". On the gross this is completely accurate. When you're dealing with niche product however, it's not quite true. And if the choice is a horrible mangle of a dub vs. a well done subtitle, I think most of us, most of old fans, are just fine with reading and watching.

"Nobody wants to read a movie" was used as an excuse to not make a subbed version available. It was also used as a cover for when a title didn't have the original music and effects tracks as separate audio distinct from dialog (either lost or not desired as the Macek/Harmony Gold intended end use was dub only with HG created and owned music) and an easy "shut uppa yu mouth!" to the growing 'aware' anime fandom.

Thing is, an English dub is necessary if one wants anime to have any hope of a broader audience. This is where broadcast TV afternoon kidvid came in, and had value. The lack of that entry point is being felt by the marketplace.

[Drew_Sutton]

I think Steve's right - it's less about a 'generation' and more about an inflection point or catalyst anime. I grew up in the mid-80s watching GI Joe, Transformers, JEM, Thundercats and Silverhawks - all of these American shows that outsourced animation to Japan and contemporaries of Robotech that certainly inspired an enjoyment of Japanese animation. But growing up where I did, we were too enthralled with our parent's stories of rivers catching on fire to busy ourselves with Robotech; I didn't see it until the late 90s (after I watched Macross II!) I wouldn't count myself as an anime fan until the mid 90s when I saw fansubs at a comic book show, advertising 'Japanimation' as the tape played on a small TV at the booth. And even then, it was still another year before I really got sucked in with Sailor Moon and Yoroiden Samurai Troopers/Ronin Warriors.

I consider those mid-90s adventures my inflection point - I not only saw these cartoons as really different, I knew they were really different. I devoured as much as I could about them. Fortunately, I got on the Internet not too long after, which lead to a very deep spiral of a rabbit hole. In some ways, I can hardly imagine myself in Dave or Steve's shoes, trying to find this info having to go zine to zine, club to club. Hashtag blessed.

For me, Pokemon was a nostalgia trip, because it reminded me of the Nickelodeon anime I watched as a kid. I knew I was too old for it, but I was still a fan. (^_^) I don't quite remember how, but it was with Pokemon that it dawned on me that the Nickelodeon cartoons from when I was a kid, that weird E.Y.E.S. of Mars film I had seen on the Sci-Fi channel, and the stuff they were talking about on rec.arts.anime were in fact all the same thing. I had Usenet access through the local library, but it was text-only; my understanding of anime back then was reading descriptions and then trying to imagine what it might look like. (^_^;)

I never equated Pokemon with something like Noozles but it makes perfect sense. I guess I should clarify - I shouldn't have sounded like I was some superior fan at the time. I never got into Pokemon because I thought the show was aimed a bit younger than I was (And, I guess so, a show for the young elementary market versus 15-year-old-me) but I had friends who were into the games, so it was a part of our after-school rotation of anime. I was into plenty of awful Japanese cartoons at the time, just not into Pokemon.

[SteveH]

I think the term 'Catalyst Anime' has actually changed its meaning a little since I coined it years ago (not that anybody noticed )

For me it means the show where I so enjoyed it, I wanted to track down it's origin. That's an old worn story about Star Blazers and Fanfare magazine and the C/Fo and Books Nippan and blah blah. The thing is, up until Star Blazers, the origin in Japan was hidden or otherwise disguised, buried in "look at those names in the production side" while the 'Americanizing' team got the big credits and the first credit frames.

What I recall, even Robotech didn't really push the Japanese connection, but they did put Tatsunoko out there. I think. It's been AGES since I've seen the Robotech credit crawl, if the 'Art of Robotech' book is any guide there's zero Japanese names listed, only the HG people.

So, yeah, the pre-internet days, finding out stuff was hard hard work. If you weren't on the west coast you'd never know about anything. There was some really amazing timing going on as far as my anime journey is concerned.

[DKop]

Macek goal was to paint with a wide brush to reach as many new potential fans as possible. The thing with wide brushes is that some get more paint than others, so it will work with some and not for some. With a fine brush like the fandom had been doing with subtitles, its adding that extra detail to strengthen and detail a new fan, something a wide brush can't do.

I agree with Macek theory on how he reached a wide audience with Robotech, but that was through one mindset to reach people with animation. It really boils down to "too each their own," which if someone got a lot from dub anime on tv and wanted to know more, the next step is tracking down subs of an OVA, or finding satellite rips of other anime playing on network that wasn't cable or local stations. That's how it was for me. If I never had that fine brush to add more detail to my fandom, I wouldn't be here. But without TV being that first introduction, I wouldn't be here either.

[SteveH]

Can I mention how regretful it is that one can't edit or add to posts here? If it's there it's a big secret.

And really, shouldn't this move down to 'Anime' and not the 'meet and greet' area?

[llj]

Without the use of edits, you'll just have to break the eternal message board taboo: post two times in a row in one thread!

I've already done this here numerous times!

[SteveH]

Without the use of edits, you'll just have to break the eternal message board taboo: post two times in a row in one thread!

I've already done this here numerous times!

HA! Indeed.

In a way I do like the no-edit feature, because it preserves both the good and the bad. People sometimes throw words around that are factually and documented incorrect, or something that is so 'outside of reason' that it causes disruption and argument by intent and desire, THEN they go back and change the post and try to claim that it wasn't them that started the fire. Luckily it's been tradition that people of that mindset just don't come here.

But it does vex me when I make a stupid spelling or grammar mistake and I catch it just as I hit post. :/

[DKop]

I thnk gramarz errors are mai miggest issue whne it comz to my posts. You just gotta always be creful about hwo you tpye.

Now to check and see if I got my grammar right before I hit submi--