The Old School Otaku Lounge

Yeah...as much as I tried to even like it as it's own thing, it still wasn't the amazing series a lot of people seemed to proclaim it was. I liked some things about it (the soundtrack was great! and SOME of the characters seemed interesting) but I wouldn't recommend it and I definitely wouldn't buy it. (Although I was disappointed that I couldn't find any Notebooks like the ones they use in the show...I would TOTALLY buy an official Gatchaman Note, but I couldn't seen to find any being made. What a wasted opportunity for official merchandise! )

usamimi wrote:Yeah...as much as I tried to even like it as it's own thing, it still wasn't the amazing series a lot of people seemed to proclaim it was. I liked some things about it (the soundtrack was great! and SOME of the characters seemed interesting) but I wouldn't recommend it and I definitely wouldn't buy it. (Although I was disappointed that I couldn't find any Notebooks like the ones they use in the show...I would TOTALLY buy an official Gatchaman Note, but I couldn't seen to find any being made. What a wasted opportunity for official merchandise! )

This. THIS. ThisthisthisthisTHIS.

*ahem* I shall diverge for a moment.

Among the things I dislike about the current state of anime is the whole 13-episode run.

(note: For 13 episode run assume any show that runs over the course of 3 months- 8, 10, 14 episodes whatever short of 26 or 52. I refuse to use the frou-frou weeaboo word 'Cours' because I don't trust that it's been correctly romanized from the katakana and besides, it's a douchbag kind of 'Oh I am SO MUCH THE SMART over YOU' thing. Onward. )

In the old days shows had die-cast toys, sometimes action figures, and model kits. But another major sponsor of MANY of our favorite shows were Stationary or Paper Goods companies. They made the notebooks, the files, the clear files, the pencil boards, the pencils, the pen sets, erasers, blah blah blah the stuff the kids (remember, anime is really, honestly, mostly for kids) took to school to show their affiliation to their favorite cartoons or characters.

Paper goods such as these are simple, easy and fairly cheap to make. They're designed to be used and disposed of. It was a constant cycle because every year there was new stuff, to go with the new school year.

13 weeks isn't really time to REACT. Even as simple as it is to print up some pencil boards it takes time to get those out to the stores and onto the shelves. You can 'ramp up' and have them ready for the debut but you can't 'cash in' on a 'more successful than expected' show or breakout character. So in many cases it seems companies just don't even bother anymore.

The simple fact that there aren't Moleskine-style Gatchaman Note books out there is such a huge failure I can't even understand it. Cripes, in the old days there would be one as a pack-in gift with one of the major anime magazines. Probably My Anime.

That's exactly what I was thinking! I was honestly shocked that I found nothing on eBay or Google. I would've thought that was a gimme for this, as it looks exactly like a normal moleskin notebook. How hard could it possibly be to make something like that?!

usamimi wrote:That's exactly what I was thinking! I was honestly shocked that I found nothing on eBay or Google. I would've thought that was a gimme for this, as it looks exactly like a normal moleskin notebook. How hard could it possibly be to make something like that?!

Well, I have my own ideas but there's zero way to know how much of my thinking is rooted in otherwise unobserved facts. In other words, I don't live in Japan and can't just walk to the various shops and see with my own eyes.

But here's my thinking. This is one of the first shows out since Takara-Tomy took over Tatsunoko.

Takara (before the Tomy merge) used to be a MAJOR player in anime goods, cranking out all manner of toys and especially plastic model kits. During the heydays of the early '80s there was a serious war between Takara and Bandai in terms of making better and better models. Bandai pushed 'flash' such as different colors of plastic on one 'runner' called the 'System Injection' process. Takara worked on making their kits more 'realistic' to the animation model sheets and introduced the poly-cap (an innovation first introduced by competing maker Tamiya for their tank kits) for major joints, which allowed for ease of posing the finished robot without the fear of the old-style plastic-on-plastic joints wearing out and making it all floppy. Bandai didn't introduce poly-cap joints until their Zeta Gundam kits.

So Takara and Bandai were neck-and neck. USA and Soviet Union. Each were backing show after show produced by Sunrise. Then things happened.

1. Macross. Specifically, the 'union' of smaller model and toy companies. That union allowed the 'minors' to compete on a more equal footing, gaining all-important shelf space. Suddenly what was a 'given' became a fight. The success of Macross led the 'union' to gather more companies and fund more shows, none of which were anywhere NEAR as popular as Macross which eventually led to a number of the companies (most significantly, Takatoku Toys) to failure and bankruptcy and sometimes being bought up by Bandai.

2. Sunrise produced anime shows tended to do better for Bandai than Takara as time went on.

3. Takara got completely sidetracked by 'Transformers' and the demands of Hasbro in the U.S. The lure of all that BIG AMERICAN MONEY just took over their brains.

And so, when 'Panzer World Galient' came out and didn't do as well as Dougram or Votoms, mostly due to the glut of shows on the air at that time, Takara decided to throw in the towel and more-or-less completely gave up making anime plamo. They focused on toys. Meanwhile Bandai got bigger and bigger, expanding, improving, all the fire of competition kept them going into the '90s, when they started to get a little stale, but all that is another discussion. Bandai is still the KING NUMBER ONE of toys and models in Japan. And just about the only major sponsor.

Takara gave up the fight. Ever since they've completely forgotten they COULD fight. Their toys for the early '90s Tetsujin 28 FX were embarrassing, firmly rooted in the '80s. Many of their 'Brave' series robot toys get high marks from collectors for their sturdy nature and interesting transformation and combination methods, but that's STILL rooted in their '80s 'Transformers' work.

Takara gave up. Mostly they do stuff for Tomy now. Kiddy toys like Thomas the Tank Engine. They did some toys for that new version of Yattaman but they were small and vanished pretty quick- not at ALL like the insane production companies like Takatoku and Clover used to crank out for the Time Bokan shows. And my feeling is that whole 'surrender to destiny' thinking now affects the production of Tatsunoko's shows. "Well, we can't really do this, it would cost money to promote and we just can't spare it...nobody would be interested in licensing anyway...and this show is just 12 weeks, we're putting all our resources in the Live Gatchaman movie"

And is anyone talking about THAT? I'm not hearing it. Best I heard was "hey, it wasn't bad" and that's all.

Geh. Bah.

Well, Haruhi was 14 episodes, and there are tons of merchandise for that show. Shows like Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai and Ika Musume also had very few episodes, yet they prove popular and have merchandise. I don't visit Animate very often because I cannot relate to much in there (although I'd rather go there than Toranoana that's full of hentai manga with pictures of girls with balloon boobs, all tied up, with faces that just say, "Oh PLEASE just leave me alone!")... at least Animate keeps it clean for the kids. So, I cannot comment on the lack of any Gatchaman goods. As for the wasted potential, it's either 1. we still haven't seen the last of the show yet, or 2. it really wasn't that popular of a show to bother with.

Steve, that plastic model history rundown was pretty interesting, and I wouldn't have thought to find it in this thread.　I'm glad I've been following along in this thread. The only Takara models I have are two Area 88 planes and a Crusher Joe kit. IMAI and ARII were pumping out Macross models, but those molds were taken over by Bandai. Takara didn't leave a very large footprint on the history of models. I guess Tomy didn't really either (I'm fond of my Lensman Brittania model by Tomy though!), but together as Takara Tomy, they put out quality models. They just aren't tied to any anime.

I actually sat down and watched this show all the way through this weekend, and I've gotta say that I think it's actually pretty good. Now, it is NOT the same as old school Gatchaman, that is true and should be known right at the outset. But that said, the show DOES have some interesting things to say and upon reflection I almost wonder if they tied it to the Gatchaman franchise in HOPES of getting some older viewers to watch it. Which leads to my main point: Gatchaman CROWDS has something to say to both young and old alike.

I think Gatchaman CROWDS can have some very interesting messaging depending on what angle you view it at. (much like "Summer Wars", but not as TIGHTLY written or with characters as compelling) The thing I find most interesting is that all the reviews I've read make it sound like the show is "All Hajime, ALL THE TIME", and that's just not true from my PoV, altho I think the most compelling message comes from Hajime in DIFFERENT perspectives.

One thing everyone seems fixated on is how GALAX (aka. the internet) plays such a big role in the story, and the statement the show is making on social media and how it can be used. However, what I haven't seen most people mention is how Hajime seems to have the MOST healthy view of that and a view that EVERYONE should have. Which can be summed up in two points:
#1. (like in Summer Wars) Online relationships are great, and it is amazing to be able to communicate with people across the globe instantly, but you still NEED to cultivate actual, human relationships. You should still get to know others AS PEOPLE and interact with them lest you dehumanize them. Which dovetails nicely with...
#2. If all the information gets overbearing turn it OFF. I think it's truly beautiful when someone asks Hajime what she will do when people find out who she is and start bombarding her with online messages and even hate mail and she holds up her smartphone and *click* turns it off. They do a lot of things with technology in Gatchaman CROWDS, but one reason I think Hajime is presented so strongly is because she is really comfortable using technology but is FEARLESS about turning it OFF.

It also has an interesting political message considering what's going on in American politics right now. I would agree that the narrative is not as tight as it could be and the story kind of goes out with a "whimper", but thematically it puts out some interesting viewpoints and I think it presents them in such a way that they're worth hearing. As I said at the beginning, I think there's some interesting messages for younger "always been online" viewers, while also presenting some perspective for "set in my ways, the internet is destroying society" older viewers. There is definitely an idealistic undercurrent, but it never gets too dominant and even in the end is left to the viewer to decide how it may work out.

It has flaws, to be sure, but I think it's worth watching.

I'm not completely ready to go into a whole thing, but on the "Hajime unplugs" thing, the aspect is, the stream never stops. It doesn't MATTER that she turned her phone off, all the noise would continue.

And then for the addicted, the frantic catching up, because in all that noise there is often a taste of signal worth following. That need to be CONSTANTLY connected (RuriRuri seems to have it, if building X is any indication) is a drug.

The message of Gatchaman Crowds comes to me as "Hey, you old farts. Just relax and get with the program" and I dunno. that kind of thing automatically trips the warning sensors.

Hajime does make a point of making the 'flesh' contact, with her projects and all. Nobody else does.

But, again, we're getting into my problem with the '13 week as normal' show life.

Whoa, thanks for all that info, Steve! Very cool, I didn't know about that.

I don't think there's going to be more Crowds because 1. they showed the enemy as being "defeated" already at the end (unless they make up another one, I guess) and 2. it actually said THE END at the end, which you generally don't see at the end of a series if it's going to continue. But with this series, who knows?

Heero - the parts you mentioned were actually parts that I LIKED, but I felt that overall the story was rushed and all the elements they threw into the mix just ended up not meshing very well. If they had JUST made a show focusing on stuff like GALAX and croudsourcing and how we use the internet, it could've been interesting. But it was often pushed to the backseat by the Gatchaman story, which was shaky at best. It had a lot of potential, and I WANTED to like it, but more often than not it just frustrated me. I really think this story would've been more suited for a non-Gatchaman tie-in; or at least, if they were gonna make it a Gatchaman thing, it should've been a little longer than 13 eps so we could get a proper story balancing out all aspects of the plot points. I didn't HATE IT (like I said--I really, really wanted to like it because it has a lot of elements of things I like in it!), but I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone I'd recommend it to: I wouldn't recommend it to Gatchaman fans because they'd hate that there isn't much focus on Gatchaman, and I don't think my friends who DIDN'T like Gatchaman would like it because they'd probably watch it & say they would've rather watched Tiger & Bunny or Eden of the East instead. ^^;;

I did find out recently that Sakura Tange (voice of Sakura in Cardcaptor Sakura) did the voice of X, which I thought was pretty neat. I don't think I've heard her voice in anything for quite some time!

usamimi wrote:Heero - the parts you mentioned were actually parts that I LIKED, but I felt that overall the story was rushed and all the elements they threw into the mix just ended up not meshing very well. If they had JUST made a show focusing on stuff like GALAX and croudsourcing and how we use the internet, it could've been interesting. But it was often pushed to the backseat by the Gatchaman story, which was shaky at best.

The whole point of the "Gatchaman" angle is to pose the question: What IS a hero?

The whole hero "motif" gets subverted right at the beginning when Hajime removes the main antagonist right in the first episode. (that's the one thing that really bugs me is we never really get any details on what the Gatchaman group was "fighting" BEFORE she appeared) The team is fighting the MESS and she basically asks "why?" But even beyond that, Hajime is CONSTANTLY hanging out with police, firefighters, SDF officers and politicians. Those are people who are (or SHOULD BE) the real "heroes", and Rui is constantly exhorting everyone that "we should be our own heroes". And that's the main point, that's why the end is what it is. I think other details are like mitichlorians. Could Gatchaman CROWDS give more information about Berg or GALAX or any other number of things? Sure, but it's not ABOUT those things. It is about the CROWDS, the every day people that have an impact on our lives and how those people overcome their own failings.

(You even get a montage of EACH Gatchaman team member explaining (ala, Sailor Moon R movie) how Hajime has positively impacted their lives and helped make them a better PERSON, not as a "Gatchaman" but just as a human being)

That's true, that's true. I think that message doesn't come across as loud as it should have, though. I've seen others who've watched it and didn't really take that away as the core message. (I had several friends skip that episode because they thought it was just a recap ep...haha, whoops. ) I think it's because the plot seems so jumbled at times. I really wish the writing had been more tight & focused. It has some really great ideas and messages! The execution just left a lot to be desired; at least, for me anyway.